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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 07:30 
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Fat Head wrote:
sldawgs wrote:
alan smithee wrote:
sldawgs wrote:
alan smithee wrote:
JJ wrote:
I've actually been completely disappointed by Jesse's character these past four episodes. As far-fetched as the show is, I just don't buy it. Seems a bit like a deus ex machina to make an ultimate and comprehensive finale possible.

I'll go in a bit with you on that. I'll say it's deus ex machinish. My feelings may change (in either direction) depending on how necessary Jesse's actions are to how the show wraps up.

I'm thinking Hamlet. There are some definite similarities.

Interesting. Expand please. (Jesse could be seen as going a bit batty like the Shakespearean title character at least.)

Jesse can been seen as the Prince. Jesse falls in love with Jane, like Hamlet and Ophelia. Ophelia drowns, Jane basically drowns.

Walt is definitely the king, who became the successor to the crown after killing Gus. We all know Walt is a master manipulator and had been working Jesse for the better part of the series. Mike became a father figure for Jesse but then Walt kills Mike and tries to step in a the father figure. Jesse is pretty sure Walt killed Mike.

Even Badger and Skinny Pete can fill the roles of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. Especially lately.

It's not a perfect match, for instance, how does Hank fit in, but it presents some scenarios for the upcoming episodes and could pose quite a Shakespearean series finale.


I am not sure about the whole deus ex thing, the scene in which we see the bodyguard frisk Jesse would not indicate lazy writing to me (the scene we are to believe he takes the ricin although the scene was forgettable so this all may be just opportunistic as it later gives credence to the whole next pick pocket scene where he switches his drugs for normal fags)



It didn't smack of lazy writing, just of convenient plot twisting. I don't buy Jesse's whole direction this season, whether or not it's acted or written well.

Last night's episode also featured a detail I couldn't stand - Hank calling Marie right after he put Walt into the car. It seems completely out of place, but might be necessary as a plot point later on (Marie knows that Hank made the bust.)

And how the hell are they getting cell service way out there?

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 11:40 
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JJ wrote:
I don't buy Jesse's whole direction this season, whether or not it's acted or written well.


I actually think it makes sense only in the context of Jesse was at his breaking point when Hank found him. He wanted to hurt Walt, that was the only thing on his mind when Hank found him, and I think it stays true to Jesse's character that he changes his mind when he stops to think about what he is doing.Walt is the only one he wants to hurt, so why burn down his house? Also, he knows Walt has been lying and manipulating Hank just like he has been doing with Jesse. You know, common enemy and all. All in all it does seem rushed, but it also seems consistent with the characters.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 11:54 
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Will wrote:
JJ wrote:
I don't buy Jesse's whole direction this season, whether or not it's acted or written well.


I actually think it makes sense only in the context of Jesse was at his breaking point when Hank found him. He wanted to hurt Walt, that was the only thing on his mind when Hank found him, and I think it stays true to Jesse's character that he changes his mind when he stops to think about what he is doing.Walt is the only one he wants to hurt, so why burn down his house? Also, he knows Walt has been lying and manipulating Hank just like he has been doing with Jesse. You know, common enemy and all. All in all it does seem rushed, but it also seems consistent with the characters.


Maybe from that point. My skepticism started before that - I thought plenty of bad stuff had happened to Jesse before this year, so had no clue why he'd hit his breaking point now. The whole throwing money around and moping at the playground seemed OOC to me.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 13:00 
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JJ wrote:
And how the hell are they getting cell service way out there?

What do you mean? It's obviously right outside of town. Walt made it there within about 3 minutes (and about 10 lines of dialog), then after he called Todd's dad, they made it there from wherever they were is less than 5 minutes. Walt and Hank were pretty much talking the whole time so there wasn't a gap in time that could have given them the time to get there.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 13:20 
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JJ wrote:
Will wrote:
JJ wrote:
I don't buy Jesse's whole direction this season, whether or not it's acted or written well.


I actually think it makes sense only in the context of Jesse was at his breaking point when Hank found him. He wanted to hurt Walt, that was the only thing on his mind when Hank found him, and I think it stays true to Jesse's character that he changes his mind when he stops to think about what he is doing.Walt is the only one he wants to hurt, so why burn down his house? Also, he knows Walt has been lying and manipulating Hank just like he has been doing with Jesse. You know, common enemy and all. All in all it does seem rushed, but it also seems consistent with the characters.


Maybe from that point. My skepticism started before that - I thought plenty of bad stuff had happened to Jesse before this year, so had no clue why he'd hit his breaking point now. The whole throwing money around and moping at the playground seemed OOC to me.

Remember that the entire series takes place in less than two years of their time. The death of Mike and the dirt bike kid are what finally pushed Jesse over.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 13:55 
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sldawgs wrote:
JJ wrote:
And how the hell are they getting cell service way out there?

What do you mean? It's obviously right outside of town. Walt made it there within about 3 minutes (and about 10 lines of dialog), then after he called Todd's dad, they made it there from wherever they were is less than 5 minutes. Walt and Hank were pretty much talking the whole time so there wasn't a gap in time that could have given them the time to get there.


It's right out of town now. When Jesse and Walt were cooking there the first time, it seemed hours away in the desert.

(Of course, the GPS coordinates are actually on the studio entrance.)

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 13:58 
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knarf wrote:
JJ wrote:
Will wrote:
JJ wrote:
I don't buy Jesse's whole direction this season, whether or not it's acted or written well.


I actually think it makes sense only in the context of Jesse was at his breaking point when Hank found him. He wanted to hurt Walt, that was the only thing on his mind when Hank found him, and I think it stays true to Jesse's character that he changes his mind when he stops to think about what he is doing.Walt is the only one he wants to hurt, so why burn down his house? Also, he knows Walt has been lying and manipulating Hank just like he has been doing with Jesse. You know, common enemy and all. All in all it does seem rushed, but it also seems consistent with the characters.


Maybe from that point. My skepticism started before that - I thought plenty of bad stuff had happened to Jesse before this year, so had no clue why he'd hit his breaking point now. The whole throwing money around and moping at the playground seemed OOC to me.

Remember that the entire series takes place in less than two years of their time. The death of Mike and the dirt bike kid are what finally pushed Jesse over.


Seems to me that, in rough order of importance, Jesse should have been affected by:

1) Death of girlfriend (close to Jesse)
2) Death of close friend (close to Jesse)
3) Poisoning of little kid (close to Jesse)
4) Death of dirt bike kid (unknown innocent child)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
300) Death of Mike (decent guy and pretty funny, but known hit man and bad ass)

I may have been missing a few other things at the top. Seems like the final straw that put him over the edge was watching his friends waste time on the couch.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 14:03 
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JJ wrote:
knarf wrote:
JJ wrote:
Will wrote:
JJ wrote:
I don't buy Jesse's whole direction this season, whether or not it's acted or written well.


I actually think it makes sense only in the context of Jesse was at his breaking point when Hank found him. He wanted to hurt Walt, that was the only thing on his mind when Hank found him, and I think it stays true to Jesse's character that he changes his mind when he stops to think about what he is doing.Walt is the only one he wants to hurt, so why burn down his house? Also, he knows Walt has been lying and manipulating Hank just like he has been doing with Jesse. You know, common enemy and all. All in all it does seem rushed, but it also seems consistent with the characters.


Maybe from that point. My skepticism started before that - I thought plenty of bad stuff had happened to Jesse before this year, so had no clue why he'd hit his breaking point now. The whole throwing money around and moping at the playground seemed OOC to me.

Remember that the entire series takes place in less than two years of their time. The death of Mike and the dirt bike kid are what finally pushed Jesse over.


Seems to me that, in rough order of importance, Jesse should have been affected by:

1) Death of girlfriend (close to Jesse)
2) Death of close friend (close to Jesse)
3) Poisoning of little kid (close to Jesse)
4) Death of dirt bike kid (unknown innocent child)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
300) Death of Mike (decent guy and pretty funny, but known hit man and bad ass)

I may have been missing a few other things at the top. Seems like the final straw that put him over the edge was watching his friends waste time on the couch.

:) That Star Trek conversation could've easily done it.

It seems that I think he bonded more with Mike than you do. And I did say they were the things that finally pushed him over. You hear of people snapping over lesser things when other stresses pile up.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 14:19 
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knarf wrote:
JJ wrote:
knarf wrote:
JJ wrote:
Will wrote:
JJ wrote:
I don't buy Jesse's whole direction this season, whether or not it's acted or written well.


I actually think it makes sense only in the context of Jesse was at his breaking point when Hank found him. He wanted to hurt Walt, that was the only thing on his mind when Hank found him, and I think it stays true to Jesse's character that he changes his mind when he stops to think about what he is doing.Walt is the only one he wants to hurt, so why burn down his house? Also, he knows Walt has been lying and manipulating Hank just like he has been doing with Jesse. You know, common enemy and all. All in all it does seem rushed, but it also seems consistent with the characters.


Maybe from that point. My skepticism started before that - I thought plenty of bad stuff had happened to Jesse before this year, so had no clue why he'd hit his breaking point now. The whole throwing money around and moping at the playground seemed OOC to me.

Remember that the entire series takes place in less than two years of their time. The death of Mike and the dirt bike kid are what finally pushed Jesse over.


Seems to me that, in rough order of importance, Jesse should have been affected by:

1) Death of girlfriend (close to Jesse)
2) Death of close friend (close to Jesse)
3) Poisoning of little kid (close to Jesse)
4) Death of dirt bike kid (unknown innocent child)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
300) Death of Mike (decent guy and pretty funny, but known hit man and bad ass)

I may have been missing a few other things at the top. Seems like the final straw that put him over the edge was watching his friends waste time on the couch.

:) That Star Trek conversation could've easily done it.

It seems that I think he bonded more with Mike than you do. And I did say they were the things that finally pushed him over. You hear of people snapping over lesser things when other stresses pile up.

Sure, Jesse's a Spock fan and the thought of Scotty betraying him and helping Chekov try to win the pie eating contest was just too much.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2013, 23:53 
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JJ wrote:
sldawgs wrote:
JJ wrote:
And how the hell are they getting cell service way out there?

What do you mean? It's obviously right outside of town. Walt made it there within about 3 minutes (and about 10 lines of dialog), then after he called Todd's dad, they made it there from wherever they were is less than 5 minutes. Walt and Hank were pretty much talking the whole time so there wasn't a gap in time that could have given them the time to get there.


It's right out of town now. When Jesse and Walt were cooking there the first time, it seemed hours away in the desert.

(Of course, the GPS coordinates are actually on the studio entrance.)


Were they cooking at the same location everytime ? I think not.
Their first batch was cooked there but I think that their giant cooking week-end took place in a more remote place.


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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2013, 06:54 
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Toto le Héros wrote:
JJ wrote:
sldawgs wrote:
JJ wrote:
And how the hell are they getting cell service way out there?

What do you mean? It's obviously right outside of town. Walt made it there within about 3 minutes (and about 10 lines of dialog), then after he called Todd's dad, they made it there from wherever they were is less than 5 minutes. Walt and Hank were pretty much talking the whole time so there wasn't a gap in time that could have given them the time to get there.


It's right out of town now. When Jesse and Walt were cooking there the first time, it seemed hours away in the desert.

(Of course, the GPS coordinates are actually on the studio entrance.)


Were they cooking at the same location everytime ? I think not.
Their first batch was cooked there but I think that their giant cooking week-end took place in a more remote place.


Perhaps I was confusing their first cook location with the long weekend location.

I don't know about anyone else's provider; I'm still betting there's no coverage there.

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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2013, 08:44 
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JJ wrote:
Toto le Héros wrote:
JJ wrote:
sldawgs wrote:
JJ wrote:
And how the hell are they getting cell service way out there?

What do you mean? It's obviously right outside of town. Walt made it there within about 3 minutes (and about 10 lines of dialog), then after he called Todd's dad, they made it there from wherever they were is less than 5 minutes. Walt and Hank were pretty much talking the whole time so there wasn't a gap in time that could have given them the time to get there.


It's right out of town now. When Jesse and Walt were cooking there the first time, it seemed hours away in the desert.

(Of course, the GPS coordinates are actually on the studio entrance.)


Were they cooking at the same location everytime ? I think not.
Their first batch was cooked there but I think that their giant cooking week-end took place in a more remote place.


Perhaps I was confusing their first cook location with the long weekend location.

I don't know about anyone else's provider; I'm still betting there's no coverage there.


Maybe he's enjoying a special secret D.E.A. satellite coverage...


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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2013, 19:03 
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Wow.

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2013, 22:18 
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Goddamn. Just... goddamn.

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2013, 22:47 
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I am still trying to digest. Hank's dead. Jesse is a Nazi meth slave. Flynn knows. Walt ran away to be that guy from NH or whatever. I am not even going to bother to speculate on the next two episodes. I haven't got a damn clue.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 00:09 
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I accidentally opened this thread not thinking, as I hadn't yet watched last night's Breaking Bad. Upon seeing sldawgs' "Wow." I realized that I still hadn't seen the latest episode ...

A few minutes, I thought maybe I'd seen the cause for the "Wow." Then again about 30 minutes in. Then near the end. And probably a few other times.

Yowza.
Bill wrote:
I am still trying to digest. Hank's dead. Jesse is a Nazi meth slave. Flynn knows. Walt ran away to be that guy from NH or whatever. I am not even going to bother to speculate on the next two episodes. I haven't got a damn clue.

It kept feeling like so much had happened, it had to be the end of the episode ... and then the DVR said "26 mins of 1:04" ... (e.g.)

With all that shit, especially the Jane comment, it was as if his transformation to evil incarnate was complete (or had been complete earlier, but was being shown clearly) ... and then he makes that phone call at the end.

wd

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 05:56 
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alan smithee wrote:

With all that shit, especially the Jane comment, it was as if his transformation to evil incarnate was complete (or had been complete earlier, but was being shown clearly) ... and then he makes that phone call at the end.

wd

We'd seen glimpses of the evil inside, but it was all just the tip of the iceberg. Between the Jane comment and the Skylar phone call, this was full on Titanic.

Poor Gomi didn't even get to die on screen.

I feel like there's no way I'm going to get this right, but if I had to guess how the end is going to play out I'd say the Nazis kill everyone he loves and then he uses that big machine gun to kill them. Not sure who the ricin is for. Maybe himself? Can he grow a conscience at the end? I doubt it.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 06:53 
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A² wrote:
alan smithee wrote:

With all that shit, especially the Jane comment, it was as if his transformation to evil incarnate was complete (or had been complete earlier, but was being shown clearly) ... and then he makes that phone call at the end.

wd

We'd seen glimpses of the evil inside, but it was all just the tip of the iceberg. Between the Jane comment and the Skylar phone call, this was full on Titanic.

It was an intense and calculated phone call, but it wasn't evil. He knew the police would be there, and he was clearing Skylar. He barely made it through the call without breaking down. Pretty sure Skylar figured it out before she said she was sorry too.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 07:56 
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knarf wrote:
A² wrote:
alan smithee wrote:

With all that shit, especially the Jane comment, it was as if his transformation to evil incarnate was complete (or had been complete earlier, but was being shown clearly) ... and then he makes that phone call at the end.

wd

We'd seen glimpses of the evil inside, but it was all just the tip of the iceberg. Between the Jane comment and the Skylar phone call, this was full on Titanic.

It was an intense and calculated phone call, but it wasn't evil. He knew the police would be there, and he was clearing Skylar. He barely made it through the call without breaking down. Pretty sure Skylar figured it out before she said she was sorry too.

Yeah, that's how I took the phone call. I say he know the police were on the line when 1) Skylar didn't answer right away and 2) when she paused after he asked her if she was alone instead of saying something like "Fuck you Walt, where the fuck is Holly". What he said definitely made it look like Skylar was afraid of what Walt would do to her or the kids and that is why she didn't tell anyone.

I think it was a nice touch to leave Holly at a firestation. I know in Texas fire fighters are designated emergency workers where you can drop off a child under the age of one and they can't prosecute you for it. It's called a Moses Law and I am pretty sure most of the country has them. And it would also cancel the Amber alert.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 09:40 
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I like that the calculated phone call was foreshadowed at the start of the episode. I like a lot of the other stuff that happened.

I hate how critical the phone call to Marie (which, again, I didn't buy) turned out to be. Very deus. I also hate that it's looking like they're going to tie up all the loose ends. OOC for a show this messy.

But, overall, wd.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 10:47 
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Sheila just brought up something that could be telling in the everything has a meaning department. During the flashback call teaser when it fades from Flashback to the present. Walt fades out first, before Jesse.

And I thought the called to Marie was too contrived when it happened too. And I'm sorry Hank and Marie, I don't see how the events from last week trump the DVD that Walt and Skylar made. Just because you arrest Walt doesn't mean that all the rest of what Walt said could be proven to be untrue, and the minimum it would probably have lead to an internal investigation. Jesse's testimony would have helped but Jesse has had a criminal history too and his credibility could be easily brought up that Jesse had it out for Walt and so he told Hank what Hank wanted to hear.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 14:17 
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knarf wrote:
It was an intense and calculated phone call, but it wasn't evil. He knew the police would be there, and he was clearing Skylar. He barely made it through the call without breaking down. Pretty sure Skylar figured it out before she said she was sorry too.


:green:

I talked to people today who doubted that he knew the cops were there or that Skylar figured out what he was talking about. They even mentioned it on Talking Bad last night. I thought it was very clear that he knew the cops would be listening and that he was trying to clear Skylar from being prosecuted.
smithee wrote:

With all that shit, especially the Jane comment, it was as if his transformation to evil incarnate was complete


For me he went full evil when he told Uncle Jack to kill Jesse. Not even the moment when he spotted Jesse under the car and told Jack he still owed him Pinkman, but after that when he gave him the look that said go ahead and do it. Especially since he stood there and was going to watch. But yeah, the Jane comment was way harsh Walt, way harsh.

A2 wrote:
I feel like there's no way I'm going to get this right, but if I had to guess how the end is going to play out I'd say the Nazis kill everyone he loves and then he uses that big machine gun to kill them. Not sure who the ricin is for. Maybe himself? Can he grow a conscience at the end? I doubt it

The last scene is going to be Walt and Jesse cooking meth, not sure how or why, but it just seems right.


This last season has moved this to #1 on my all time list, supplanting The Shield. I thought Vic Mackey was bad, but damn Walt.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 16:24 
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I was surprised to see the episode was directed by Rian Johnson. Its no wonder it was so good. Has he done any other episodes?

Also, strange to see opening credits still running half an hour into the episode.

I really shouldn't watch this show while running on fumes after working a 12-hour night shift. As anxious as I am to see what's happening, I'm afraid I'm missing a lot of what's going on.

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 17:22 
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the last episode has a 10 out of 10 on Imdb.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2301451/

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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2013, 21:39 
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A² wrote:
I was surprised to see the episode was directed by Rian Johnson. Its no wonder it was so good. Has he done any other episodes?

Yes- he directed 'Fly' and 'Fifty-One'.

Also, I have to say the scene where Skyler broke down in the middle of the street really got to me.

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