Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#451 Post by Batman » 01 May 2019, 02:25

Middle wrote:And now where do we go? There are still two dragons left, but the Dothraki badasses were all killed in 20 seconds. As were most of the unsullied (at least I think). As were the Knights of the Vale (at least I think).
I've got to say, I think the entire strategy for the battle was dumb. Why face a numerically superior force head-on? The better idea would be to hold a defensive position with the ability to retreat selectively and then bring in your air power in contained pockets. Granted, Jon and the rest of them didn't have knowledge of the Korean War to lean on, but I can't believe anyone with a knowledge of cavalry though it was smart to drive straight at them. At the very least, they should have used the mobility of the cavalry to attack from their flanks, just like Stannis did against Mance Rayder north of The Wall. Moreover, they should have used their war machines (basically field artillery) prior to any charge to break the lines and soften them up. They did it simultaneously, negating any real advantage.
Middle wrote:Who are now actually left to battle the Golden Company and Cercei? And does that even matter anymore? Do we still need Cercei and Euron to be killed dead? Sure, but it somehow feels like an afterthought now that we've already battled death itself.
I think we'll get a better idea of what capabilities Dany and Jon still have in the next episode. We'll hear how many unsullied are left (I'm guessing less fewer (thanks, Stannis) than 1000) and how many Dothraki (I'm guessing fewer than 100). There are probably still more Knights of the Vale, but to be honest, they could defend the North adequately by simply holding Moat Cailin at The Neck with fewer than 100 people and fortifying White Harbor to prevent attack from the sea. I suppose Euron could try and sail the Golden Company around the west coast and attack from the direction of Deepwood Motte (currently held by the North's biggest pussy, Lord Glover), but then he'd have to deal with sailing past the Iron Islands and a resurgent Yara Greyjoy. Personally I think Dany and Jon should hold back and wait and see what Cersei does next. Once her armies start moving, attack them in the field with Dragons and make them think twice about moving north. The biggest problem they really face in terms of time is that there are only three shows left to wrap it up.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#452 Post by redamin » 01 May 2019, 18:13

This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.

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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#453 Post by » 05 May 2019, 16:25

redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#454 Post by » 05 May 2019, 20:00

A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#455 Post by Middle » 07 May 2019, 03:07

A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#456 Post by Batman » 07 May 2019, 07:59

Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#457 Post by knarf » 07 May 2019, 09:28

Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
That's exactly what I was expecting.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#458 Post by Middle » 07 May 2019, 11:34

knarf wrote:
Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
That's exactly what I was expecting.
Those Scorpions swivel quicker than a quality desk chair, apparently. I saw someone mention today that it seems that King's Landing has a thriving ball bearing industry.
Like I said, Deus ex Machina machines to level the playing field.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#459 Post by knarf » 07 May 2019, 12:28

Middle wrote:
knarf wrote:
Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
That's exactly what I was expecting.
Those Scorpions swivel quicker than a quality desk chair, apparently. I saw someone mention today that it seems that King's Landing has a thriving ball bearing industry.
Like I said, Deus ex Machina machines to level the playing field.
Still, unless they have a rear mounted one, there's a point where you're aiming/shooting through your sails.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#460 Post by Scruluce » 07 May 2019, 14:12

knarf wrote:
Middle wrote:
knarf wrote:
Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
That's exactly what I was expecting.
Those Scorpions swivel quicker than a quality desk chair, apparently. I saw someone mention today that it seems that King's Landing has a thriving ball bearing industry.
Like I said, Deus ex Machina machines to level the playing field.
Still, unless they have a rear mounted one, there's a point where you're aiming/shooting through your sails.
:green: that's exactly what I thought when I saw that play out – fly out of range, circle around, make them shoot through their sails if they're that determined. All she needed was one pass to decimate the fleet; may not have taken out all of the ships, but would've cut a large path through the middle of them.

In other aspects of the episode, I was disappointed in Jaime. I understand the reasoning in the lines written for him, but it seemed (until that moment) that he had outgrown his sister. He just bargained for his life with the assassin that Cersei sent! They've been developing this bond between he and Brienne for at least the past season. All of that for him to immediately run back to Cersei (who will probably have him killed anyway).

If the writers grew several pairs, and got in George Martin's headspace, we'd likely all be pissed at the way the show ends (Cersei wins, or everyone but the newest Barathian dies), but I expect they're heading toward a more palatable ending.

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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#461 Post by justdrewit » 07 May 2019, 23:17

Please explain to me why Cersei sent Bronn to assassinate her brothers with a crossbow of family origin, but when she had Tyrion dead to rights under the aim of her archers, she decides this is not the right time.
Man, what is happenin'? Long time, no see.

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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#462 Post by Batman » 08 May 2019, 01:37

Middle wrote:
knarf wrote:
Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
That's exactly what I was expecting.
Those Scorpions swivel quicker than a quality desk chair, apparently. I saw someone mention today that it seems that King's Landing has a thriving ball bearing industry.
Like I said, Deus ex Machina machines to level the playing field.
Deux ex machine writ large. Even if these weapons were able to fire at the ranges they were firing at with any kind of accuracy and with enough end-game velocity to do anything (i.e.: penetrate dragon skin), how did these guys do any training? I'm pretty sure they're not yet up to drone technology. You think it's tough firing an arrow and hitting a bullseye without practice? Try hitting a flying dragon at literally a mile away.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#463 Post by Middle » 08 May 2019, 09:57

Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
knarf wrote:
Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
That's exactly what I was expecting.
Those Scorpions swivel quicker than a quality desk chair, apparently. I saw someone mention today that it seems that King's Landing has a thriving ball bearing industry.
Like I said, Deus ex Machina machines to level the playing field.
Deux ex machine writ large. Even if these weapons were able to fire at the ranges they were firing at with any kind of accuracy and with enough end-game velocity to do anything (i.e.: penetrate dragon skin), how did these guys do any training? I'm pretty sure they're not yet up to drone technology. You think it's tough firing an arrow and hitting a bullseye without practice? Try hitting a flying dragon at literally a mile away.
You do know they are going to outfit Drogon with bunkerbusters and some Hellfires, right?
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#464 Post by redamin » 08 May 2019, 13:43

Scruluce wrote:
knarf wrote:
Middle wrote:
knarf wrote:
Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
A² wrote:
A² wrote:
redamin wrote:This has felt like a completely different show since they moved past what Martin has already written. That hasn't been a bad thing all of the time, but this episode in particular stands out. It just feels like they're gun-shy. You get the feeling, during the content that Martin wrote, that anyone can lose their life at any moment. No character was safe. And he wasn't afraid of getting rid of multiple major characters at once. This most recent episode did little other than reducing the CGI budget by not having to render an army tens of thousands strong as well as cutting down a few of the featured supporting cast.
I completely agree with this.

Its a hard situation to be in for the showrunners. They started off adapting Martin's story and the last few years have transitioned into writing million dollar budget fan fiction.

I'm hoping tonight (episode 4) we get the return of Daario with the 2nd sons. Or maybe Yara with the Iron Born. Dany needs more troops and I'm not sure where else she can find them. Also won't be surprised if the body count is high tonight as a swerve for all of us being disappointed in the lack of notable deaths last week.
Well, as usual, I was way off
To be fair, nobody saw that coming (quite literally). I still think the Scorpions are somewhat of a Deus ex Machina miracle weapon (certainly their aim), but they did need these, otherwise the dragon(s) would be far too powerful in the upcoming battle. The question is whether Danaerys is willing to sacrifice her last dragon to get the throne. I think she will sideline Drogon mostly, only to use him(?) as a final effort. She sees an opening at the end of the battle (turning point/weakness), uses Drogon to get to it, only to ultimately get him killed. Possibly wounding herself in the process. But also enabling another (not Cersei) to win the battle/throne.
Apparently episode 5 is going to be the mayhem episode we've all been waiting for, after ep3 was the slight (debatable) misfire that it was.
I was a little disappointed in their surprise at finding the Iron Fleet waiting for them. I was more disappointed that Dany didn't maneuver out of range, climb to a higher altitude - maybe 8-10K' - wheel around behind them, and then burn the shit out of their fleet. How quickly can they turn their ships? Not as fast as a dragon can fly.
That's exactly what I was expecting.
Those Scorpions swivel quicker than a quality desk chair, apparently. I saw someone mention today that it seems that King's Landing has a thriving ball bearing industry.
Like I said, Deus ex Machina machines to level the playing field.
Still, unless they have a rear mounted one, there's a point where you're aiming/shooting through your sails.
:green: that's exactly what I thought when I saw that play out – fly out of range, circle around, make them shoot through their sails if they're that determined. All she needed was one pass to decimate the fleet; may not have taken out all of the ships, but would've cut a large path through the middle of them.

In other aspects of the episode, I was disappointed in Jaime. I understand the reasoning in the lines written for him, but it seemed (until that moment) that he had outgrown his sister. He just bargained for his life with the assassin that Cersei sent! They've been developing this bond between he and Brienne for at least the past season. All of that for him to immediately run back to Cersei (who will probably have him killed anyway).

If the writers grew several pairs, and got in George Martin's headspace, we'd likely all be pissed at the way the show ends (Cersei wins, or everyone but the newest Barathian dies), but I expect they're heading toward a more palatable ending.
Yeah, wasn't any more a fan of this episode than the one before it.

As for the Jamie thing... what I'm hoping for (although I would be surprised if the writers were this smart) is that Jamie's whole "I did all these awful things, which make me an awful person, because of my love for Cersei" really means "I did all these awful things for this woman because of love, yet she has decided that I'm not worth it and sent this guy to kill me, so I'm going to be a bad man and kill my sister, my lover, the mother of my children, the queen" either because he knows that she's lost her mind or because he knows Daenerys can't win. He started the series as the Kingslayer, he could go out as the Queenslayer (and Kinslayer). But that's just me hoping the writer's haven't doubled back on his character development for the billionth time.

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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#465 Post by redamin » 08 May 2019, 13:46

Also, having Ghost appear in the background of one shot, charge into battle and disappear for the remainder of that episode, and then not even get a goodbye pat on the head before Jon leaves might just have been worse than forgetting he existed the last two years.

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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#466 Post by knarf » 19 May 2019, 18:57

redamin wrote:Also, having Ghost appear in the background of one shot, charge into battle and disappear for the remainder of that episode, and then not even get a goodbye pat on the head before Jon leaves might just have been worse than forgetting he existed the last two years.
Glad they ended up back together.

Overall, I thought the finale was pretty good. King Bran was a bit of a surprise to me.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#467 Post by sldawgs » 20 May 2019, 07:44

I binge watched the whole season on Saturday and Sunday and on the whole, I think it worked. Episode 6 by itself seemed too long, Half the show was people walking around black faced wondering if they will get into the prequel series or not. I half expected the Eagles to come and grab Jon after he killed Dany and carry him to Rivendale. And then for him to get on the ship with Gandalf and the elves.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#468 Post by Middle » 20 May 2019, 12:07

I had a positive feeling about the first 2 episodes; they didn't rush into anything, great buildup to doom. Then came 'The Long Night', which had awesome moments, but I had my problems with (see above). Then came the twist of the second half of the season, which came mostly out of nowhere and we ended up with bits of greatness and swaths of downright mediocrity. I hardly felt any emotions in the final episode, which is quite strange for a series I was this invested in until about a month ago. They had the opportunity to build two full seasons:
1) The whole development around The Night King, and in the season could also highlight the betrayals, allegiances and build up the ultimate breaking point of Dany and give us a better insight into the actual size of Dany's army in the buildup to the final conflict in:)
2) The ultimate season for the Iron Throne. Strategy, battles, more fleshed out conflict, Jamie's ultimate arch, Varys' and Tyrion's archs and the final battle for King's Landing (which could have been a carbon copy of 8.5, but with actual reasoning behind it).

The final episode felt like collection of afterthoughts. Dany killed in the first 20 minutes? Really? I liked that Drogon ultimately melted the Iron Throne, that felt like something that was meant to happen. But then Bran becoming yet another king of 6 kingdoms? Meh. Sansa just chose to secede and the other kingdoms were fine with that? Somehow that didn't quite land for me. I really liked the motif of Sansa, Jon and Arya heading towards their destinations in crosscuts. That was a really nice montage. And Tyrion entering the city (with the focus on his face) and later finding his siblings was a nice moment. Otherwise, I can already hardly remember what really stood out to me.

I know I am not a showrunner or writer, which must be a terrible job these days. I know it is tough to satisfy everyone with a fitting ending. But to quote Tyrion from this episode 'Noone was particularly happy, so it was probably a good compromise' should not have been the aim for this final season.
With a track record of 6 stellar seasons, one season that was apparently debatable (but I was completely onboard for) and two years of preparation, this show should have had gone out with a bang, but will now enter the same territory as 'Lost' of missed opportunities. And that is really a damn shame.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#469 Post by Batman » 21 May 2019, 01:51

Middle wrote:With a track record of 6 stellar seasons, one season that was apparently debatable (but I was completely onboard for) and two years of preparation, this show should have had gone out with a bang, but will now enter the same territory as 'Lost' of missed opportunities. And that is really a damn shame.
I don't think it sank quite down to a "Lost" fizzled ending level, but it was pretty damn mediocre. I didn't really overly hate anything, but none of this feels like something George RR Martin wrote. I'm just glad that the series is over so we can get down to what will really happen in the books. I don't feel like his books have been spoiled because I don't think he feels bound to follow the series conclusions. I can see how it might still happen this way, but I think we'll see a lot more reasoning of why Daenerys starts down the path of autocratic cruelty.

In the books...
Spoiler
...Young Griff (who may also be the first Aegon Targaryen from Rhaegar's first marriage to Elia Martell who apparently wasn't killed as a baby by The Mountain) is invading Westeros with the help of The Golden Company - an Essos-based band of mercenaries made up originally from the Blackfyre branch of the Targaryen clan. If he's invading at the same time as Daenerys, she'll probably be pretty pissed, because he would have a better claim to the throne. Now he might just end up being a pretender to the throne - maybe just another Blackfyre being propped up as Rhaegar's first son - but in any case, Daeny has to deal with this bump in the road on the way to "her" throne. Next comes Jon Snow (aka the other Aegon), who also has a better claim than Daeny. So if Daenerys really thinks the throne should be hers, it can no longer be argued because she's next in the line of succession. Dealing with multiple better claims than hers might make her transformation into a more ruthless person more believable.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#470 Post by Middle » 21 May 2019, 03:14

Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:With a track record of 6 stellar seasons, one season that was apparently debatable (but I was completely onboard for) and two years of preparation, this show should have had gone out with a bang, but will now enter the same territory as 'Lost' of missed opportunities. And that is really a damn shame.
I don't think it sank quite down to a "Lost" fizzled ending level, but it was pretty damn mediocre. I didn't really overly hate anything, but none of this feels like something George RR Martin wrote. I'm just glad that the series is over so we can get down to what will really happen in the books. I don't feel like his books have been spoiled because I don't think he feels bound to follow the series conclusions. I can see how it might still happen this way, but I think we'll see a lot more reasoning of why Daenerys starts down the path of autocratic cruelty.
Don't get me wrong, I really didn't hate it. But there were so many missed opportunities and plotlines that really never were reexplored. What was the point of Arya being a baddass assassin with face changing skills, only to use it on the Freys (mind you, last season)? Sure, she killed the Night King, but that came out of nowhere. What was, in the end, the need for Jon to be a Targaryan? Was that just a huge red herring? They dangled that in front of us just last episode, only for it to be a plotpoint to get Varys killed. I was hoping for the final season to be 6 episodes of 'Winds of Winter', 'Hardhome' or ' Battle of the Bastards'. Instead, we got a few decent episodes, two battle episodes (one of which was hardly watchable due to the darkness), which all hardly cover the grounds that could/should have been covered.
Batman wrote:In the books...
Spoiler
...Young Griff (who may also be the first Aegon Targaryen from Rhaegar's first marriage to Elia Martell who apparently wasn't killed as a baby by The Mountain) is invading Westeros with the help of The Golden Company - an Essos-based band of mercenaries made up originally from the Blackfyre branch of the Targaryen clan. If he's invading at the same time as Daenerys, she'll probably be pretty pissed, because he would have a better claim to the throne. Now he might just end up being a pretender to the throne - maybe just another Blackfyre being propped up as Rhaegar's first son - but in any case, Daeny has to deal with this bump in the road on the way to "her" throne. Next comes Jon Snow (aka the other Aegon), who also has a better claim than Daeny. So if Daenerys really thinks the throne should be hers, it can no longer be argued because she's next in the line of succession. Dealing with multiple better claims than hers might make her transformation into a more ruthless person more believable.
That sounds interesting. I really should start reading the damn books....
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#471 Post by redamin » 21 May 2019, 09:51

Echoing something that Middle said, I felt absolutely no emotion during that final episode, other than possibly relief that it was over. I don't want to say that I hated this last season, because that's an awfully strong word and I've been working with my young son that we don't "hate" things... but I really didn't like it. The last half of this season felt incredibly rushed and I have no clue why. HBO offered them a 10 episode season, but they declined and said they'd do it in six. I can't help but think that this was a massive mistake, possibly brought on because the showrunners knew what they wanted to accomplish but couldn't figure out how.

As for the books, I highly recommend them. The first three in the series are some of the best works of fiction I've ever read. Books four and five are not perfect, but still better than most other books in the genre. While I agree with Bats that GRRM won't feel beholden to the show and following in its footsteps, I 100% believe that he went into writing the books knowing how it would start and knowing how it will end. I know that Benioff and Weiss were asked a few things about the books before Martin signed off on the series (one thing being if they knew who Jon's real parents were) and I'm slightly worried that he divulged how he planned to end the books and they were lost without his guidance on how to get there.

Really, my biggest gripe is that it felt too happy of an ending. Sure, one of our "heroes" became a villain and was killed. But other than that most of the "good guys" ended up in good spots while the "bad guys" were eliminated.

And lastly, while there are so many illogical things that happened in the final episode that make absolutely no sense, this is the one that I just can't reason, no matter how hard I try...

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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#472 Post by sldawgs » 21 May 2019, 10:44

redamin wrote:And lastly, while there are so many illogical things that happened in the final episode that make absolutely no sense, this is the one that I just can't reason, no matter how hard I try...

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Are you talking about Grey Worm not killing Jon or at least fighting him? Or the Unsullied going to Naath?

Because if it's the latter, I actually thought it was touching.

Missandei was from Naath. In one of the final conversations they had she said that after the war she planned on going home but worried that her people were peaceful and could't defend themselves. Grey Worm responded with "My people are not peaceful, we will protect them." So he was honoring his promise to her.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#473 Post by Middle » 21 May 2019, 22:51

sldawgs wrote:
redamin wrote:And lastly, while there are so many illogical things that happened in the final episode that make absolutely no sense, this is the one that I just can't reason, no matter how hard I try...

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Are you talking about Grey Worm not killing Jon or at least fighting him? Or the Unsullied going to Naath?

Because if it's the latter, I actually thought it was touching.

Missandei was from Naath. In one of the final conversations they had she said that after the war she planned on going home but worried that her people were peaceful and could't defend themselves. Grey Worm responded with "My people are not peaceful, we will protect them." So he was honoring his promise to her.
The latter was indeed sweet and closes the character arch for Grey Worm better than the evil shit he was doing.

What I think redamin referred to as being illogical was that Grey Worm and his Unsullied were the prime enforcers/proponents of executing Jon, but they settled for banishment. With those guys gone, who gives a shit where Jon spends the rest of his days?
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#474 Post by Batman » 22 May 2019, 01:38

Middle wrote:
sldawgs wrote:
redamin wrote:And lastly, while there are so many illogical things that happened in the final episode that make absolutely no sense, this is the one that I just can't reason, no matter how hard I try...

Image
Are you talking about Grey Worm not killing Jon or at least fighting him? Or the Unsullied going to Naath?

Because if it's the latter, I actually thought it was touching.

Missandei was from Naath. In one of the final conversations they had she said that after the war she planned on going home but worried that her people were peaceful and could't defend themselves. Grey Worm responded with "My people are not peaceful, we will protect them." So he was honoring his promise to her.
The latter was indeed sweet and closes the character arch for Grey Worm better than the evil shit he was doing.

What I think redamin referred to as being illogical was that Grey Worm and his Unsullied were the prime enforcers/proponents of executing Jon, but they settled for banishment. With those guys gone, who gives a shit where Jon spends the rest of his days?
For that matter, who cares if the Night's Watch continues with it's forced celibacy/lack of marriage. I guess that might be a draw for a certain subset of Westerosi, but modern professional armies don't usually have problems with troops obeying orders and risking their lives when they're married.
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Re: Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

#475 Post by redamin » 22 May 2019, 13:47

Batman wrote:
Middle wrote:
sldawgs wrote:
redamin wrote:And lastly, while there are so many illogical things that happened in the final episode that make absolutely no sense, this is the one that I just can't reason, no matter how hard I try...

Image
Are you talking about Grey Worm not killing Jon or at least fighting him? Or the Unsullied going to Naath?

Because if it's the latter, I actually thought it was touching.

Missandei was from Naath. In one of the final conversations they had she said that after the war she planned on going home but worried that her people were peaceful and could't defend themselves. Grey Worm responded with "My people are not peaceful, we will protect them." So he was honoring his promise to her.
The latter was indeed sweet and closes the character arch for Grey Worm better than the evil shit he was doing.

What I think redamin referred to as being illogical was that Grey Worm and his Unsullied were the prime enforcers/proponents of executing Jon, but they settled for banishment. With those guys gone, who gives a shit where Jon spends the rest of his days?
For that matter, who cares if the Night's Watch continues with it's forced celibacy/lack of marriage. I guess that might be a draw for a certain subset of Westerosi, but modern professional armies don't usually have problems with troops obeying orders and risking their lives when they're married.
It was the whole "we're gonna send Jon to the Night's Watch to satisfy Grey Worm who is getting on a boat with all the Unsullied and leaving the continent" thing. It just felt like a convenient way of getting Jon to not be the king, but then they took the reason away and shipped it across the sea.

Also, here is an interesting note about Naath and the butterflies that might not be a happy ending for the Unsullied.
Butterfly fever
The so-called butterfly fever is a disease native to the isle of Naath. It is believed to be transmitted by the local butterflies, particularly a large black-and-white variety with wings as big as a man's hand, according to Archmaester Ebrose. Even though the Naathi themselves are immune to this sickness, all outsiders who remain too long on Naath fall prey to it.

Symptoms
Fever is the first sign of the disease, followed by painful spasms that make the victims seem to be dancing wildly and uncontrollably. In the last stage, those afflicted sweat blood, and their flesh sloughs from their bones.
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Butterfly_fever

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