World Cup 2006 Thread

or: How I learned to stop worrying and love other types of entertainment, too.

Who will win? (Entrants listed in FIFA Ranking Order)

Brazil
5
14%
Czech Republic
1
3%
Netherlands
1
3%
USA
3
8%
Spain
2
6%
France
2
6%
England
4
11%
Germany
1
3%
Wyoming
11
31%
NOTA
6
17%
 
Total votes: 36

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Toto le Héros
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#376 Post by Toto le Héros » 07 Jul 2006, 08:12

I'm convinced.

Our football sucks.

You win.

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#377 Post by Toasty » 07 Jul 2006, 08:22

Was that meant for the Italians... 'cause all the other stuff in this thread is pure conjecture as JJ has not prooved any percentage of goals won due penalty kicks, vs saved... nor Free Touchdowns due a First down on the 1.

If you would like to talk about the France vs Italy match...

By all means, I agree...

Your magic has run out.
:D
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#378 Post by Toto le Héros » 07 Jul 2006, 08:29

Toasty wrote:Was that meant for the Italians... 'cause all the other stuff in this thread is pure conjecture as JJ has not prooved any percentage of goals won due penalty kicks, vs saved... nor Free Touchdowns due a First down on the 1.

If you would like to talk about the France vs Italy match...

By all means, I agree...

Your magic has run out.
:D
Really ? I'm not sure. Both teams were strongly criticized to finally end up against each other after going through a wonderful Mundial.
I think both teams are playing better as the competition runs.
I hope we'll see a good game. Zidane deserves it. And Del Piero too.

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#379 Post by Toasty » 07 Jul 2006, 08:44

At least we can agree on that.

Should be a fantastic finale...
Both use the counter attack sweetly, so it should make for quite a few heart stopping moments.
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#380 Post by JJ » 07 Jul 2006, 09:02

Toasty wrote:Was that meant for the Italians... 'cause all the other stuff in this thread is pure conjecture as JJ has not prooved any percentage of goals won due penalty kicks, vs saved...
I produced a stat a long time ago. (73%, from MLS)

Wikipedia confirms:
the internet never lies wrote:In practice, the large majority of penalty kicks result in a goal. Of 78 penalty kicks taken during FA Premier League 2005-06 season, 57 (about 73%) resulted in a goal.
It's comparable to a free throw percentage.

I'll let it lie, but again I'd suggest that if you're going to have such a system in a game in which 1-0 results are common, maybe you should move the spot back a bit (especially for fouls in the box which are relatively minor).

I'll root for a good final. FWIW, I enjoyed some of the Italy-Germany game, and thought it was well-reffed (I saw that Toto disagreed with me a few pages ago). It was nice to see the game get decided on the field (and those German wankers get beaten for trying to win the game in a shootout).

Every tied game should be ended by a goal (and not PK's), but that's another argument altogether...
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#381 Post by Toasty » 07 Jul 2006, 09:30

Well said.

Viva Italia.
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#382 Post by spivey » 07 Jul 2006, 09:59

JJ wrote:
kinggrl wrote:
ze424 wrote:
JJ wrote:If they didn't award a FREE GOAL for a ticky tack penalty in the box, maybe players might toughen up a bit and realize that getting a small kick to their shoe really didn't stop them from making a play on a ball 10 feet in front of them.
Carvalho's tackle slowed Henry down and probably would have cost him a clear chance on goal. Foul in the box. Penalty kick. Why are we still discussing this?
Because JJ clearly doesn't understand the rules. Also, it's painful for him to have others discuss a sport where he has no input or insight. Therefore, he creates drama.

Portugal lost. Actually, Portugal deserved to lose 2 rounds ago.
Soccer's full of teams who win who should have lost years ago. Mostly because many of the games are decided by whim and free goals rather than talent.

JJ understands the rules just fine. What is amazing is how far you supposedly educated futbolphiles will go to defend the system which is demonstrably and obviously unjust and unfair.

And you do rip on other teams for diving even when it's the only reason your own team advances. Well done. You guys would make great politicians.

The comparison with baseball (as far as refereeing) is fine. Baseball has as many arbitrary calls as any sport -- every pitch is a judgment call by the umpire. Do you have any clue what percentage of games the umpiring is noticeable enough to decide the outcome? I'd say less than 1%. In this cup I'd put the estimate at about 25%.

In baseball, the ump can't award a hit batsmen a home run. In soccer, the ref can (and does, even if the guy wasn't hit). Vive la difference.

But I'm glad the World Cup gets such a stage. It's the time every four years when I'm reminded that Americans aren't so stupid after all.

And, please, I'm aching to know what special insight of the game everyone possesses. I've watched games with serious fans, never hearing any comment more intelligent than "good ball". Yes, I've played the flippin' thing. It's the easiest game in the world to understand (and yet, they've screwed it up so badly with poor rules poorly applied).
Dude, you're starting to sound like a nagging mother-in-law. This sport has no more retardation in it than any other sport. Seriously, I don't understand why Americans get so worked up about it. It's almost like hating it equals patriotism or something. Like you have to hate it and be an annoying, repetitive, ball-buster about it in order to be a REAL American.

You have your views, we have ours. You love, what, men in tights pointing their asses at a guy who has to get the ball "in" their "touchdown" area, or dudes in oversized shorts who run and back forth on a space that seems the size of my living room so as to drop a ball in a basket...and we love football/soccer.

Really, when you get down to it, you can find something annoying or unfair or retarded about ALL sports. I have no problem in admitting that I love even those things about football -- the diving, the penalty kicks, the yellow cards...all of it. Because, something Americans will never understand because none of their popular sports provoke this, is that this is a sport that can bring an entire country to a standstill. Obviously there's going to be many retarded or annoying or unfair things in something that can do this. But they all merge into one the moment you find yourself standing with thousands of other people at a national monument cheering and crying and hugging total strangers, horns blaring, confetti everywhere, in the middle of the biggest party you've ever been to and that feels like it is never going to end...when only two hours prior, had you pryed yourself away from the t.v. and ventured out, a normally loud and pulsating metropolis seemed like a ghost town with literally not a single, solitary person outside.

I'm hoping even a little bit of this can strike a chord with you somehow. This game, at least for me, has more to do with the heart than the brain. And the heart is often annoying, unfair, and melodramatic.
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#383 Post by JJ » 07 Jul 2006, 10:07

This game...has more to do with the heart than the brain.
I think that sums it up on all sides.
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#384 Post by F.N.G. » 07 Jul 2006, 10:16

JJ wrote:
globe and mail wrote: Blatter worried World Cup could be lowest scoring ever

Associated Press

Berlin — FIFA President Sepp Blatter is worried that this year's World Cup might end up the lowest scoring ever, and he wants to figure out ways to "make football more attractive again."

The 2006 World Cup has seen 2.27 goals per contest so far, just a shade above the record low of 2.21 from 1990. This year's average would dip below that if no goals are scored in Saturday's Germany-Portugal third-place game and the France-Italy final Sunday.

"The football isn't that bad, but there aren't enough goals — and when there are too few goals, the public isn't very enthusiastic," Blatter told the German news agency DPA. "The essence of the game is goals."

Blatter wants to devise changes that will help attackers break through increasingly sophisticated defenses.

"We will set up a large symposium with the 32 World Cup coaches, the referees, the doctors and the technical study group of the World Cup," Blatter said. "We want to hear what they have to say about what we can do to make football more attractive again."

Ideas might include widening the goals and revamping offside rules. After the low-scoring 1990 World Cup, FIFA reacted by eliminating the pass back to the goalie.

Blatter ruled out one proposal of reducing teams to 10 men to counteract the growing speed and size of defenders. The Brazilian great Socrates has argued that would create space for playmakers such as France's Zinedine Zidane, Germany's Michael Ballack and Italy's Francesco Totti.

Blatter hopes instead that teams will adopt more attacking styles.

"If it's an open game, there is enough room for 11 players," Blatter said, "but with 11 defenders there is not enough space."
The symposium (which has doctors? WTF?) should include JJ, who (in spite of his lack of soccer upbringing) suggested all of those proposals (and others) many pages ago.

Only JJ can save this sport.

[Upon further reflection, the game with the most similar rule to soccer's "free goal" penalty kick is football, which awards the ball on the 1 yard line -- a free touchdown -- to any pass interference call in the end zone. This has definitely proved to be one of the most controversial and poorly applied rules. It has also led to a lot of Jerry Rice-ing, where the offensive player points at the defender and moans immediately after the play to try to draw a flag. However, it hasn't really led to diving -- the receiver still generally tries to catch the ball first.

I think the football rule could use some modification, but as a game-decisive call, it generally gets lost among other happenings in the higher scoring sport. It's a lot easier to bury a random decision in a 28-20 game rather than in a contest where it leads to the only tally in a 1-0 match.]
What FIFA should do is stop fucking with the sport. It's never been broke, but more often than not their 'fixes' end up doing more harm than good - remember the golden goal? And if they want more goals scored, why not simply remove offside? How it used to be long ago.
The reason games are becoming more defensive is because there is now more pressure on teams not to lose, rather than for teams to win. So teams play for an hour, then play for extra time and penalties. One easy way to stop this: No penalties, games go through extra time and then become sudden death. Eventually somebody will have to score (the one player still standing). Or, that'll make teams play to win during the opening 90mins.
One thing I never understood about Eriksson's tactics - no attacking in the first 20mins, even against inferior teams. The idea beng that you ease yourselves into the game. I say go for it in the first 20mins, score a few goals, then you can ease off, they have to do the work, rather than getting increasingly more desparate as time goes on.
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#385 Post by Hiller » 07 Jul 2006, 10:39

I am in favor of bringing back the golden goal. I don't know why they got rid of it. Penalty kicks suck. And they encourage inferior teams to play for a 0-0 tie and hope to get lucky in the shootout. Other than that, the game is fine. Getting rid of the diving and fake injuries would be nice too but I have no idea how to do that. More in game yellow cards for diving? Review of the game tape and issue post game yellow cards?
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#386 Post by London Redsox » 07 Jul 2006, 12:04

Hiller wrote:I am in favor of bringing back the golden goal. I don't know why they got rid of it. Penalty kicks suck. And they encourage inferior teams to play for a 0-0 tie and hope to get lucky in the shootout. Other than that, the game is fine. Getting rid of the diving and fake injuries would be nice too but I have no idea how to do that. More in game yellow cards for diving? Review of the game tape and issue post game yellow cards?
I think they have to be more stringent on yellow cards for diving. The rule is there, but is largely unused because the referee is supposed to be SURE it was a dive. Sod that, let the player err on the side of caution. I want to see yellow cards if the ref thought it might be a dive. I'm certian that would cut it down.

The reason golden-goal sucked was that it made teams less offensively-minded in extra-time. When any mistake could lead to a goal that you then can't recover from, that makes you more inclined to go for PKs, where at least you get 5 chances and the pressure is equal.

If they must change it after 120 mins (and I'm by no means sure that they should) perhaps they should have a hockey-style shootout with players advancing on goal from halfway. (With GK plus defender??)
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#387 Post by Toto le Héros » 07 Jul 2006, 23:14

spivey wrote:
JJ wrote:
kinggrl wrote:
ze424 wrote:
JJ wrote:If they didn't award a FREE GOAL for a ticky tack penalty in the box, maybe players might toughen up a bit and realize that getting a small kick to their shoe really didn't stop them from making a play on a ball 10 feet in front of them.
Carvalho's tackle slowed Henry down and probably would have cost him a clear chance on goal. Foul in the box. Penalty kick. Why are we still discussing this?
Because JJ clearly doesn't understand the rules. Also, it's painful for him to have others discuss a sport where he has no input or insight. Therefore, he creates drama.

Portugal lost. Actually, Portugal deserved to lose 2 rounds ago.
Soccer's full of teams who win who should have lost years ago. Mostly because many of the games are decided by whim and free goals rather than talent.

JJ understands the rules just fine. What is amazing is how far you supposedly educated futbolphiles will go to defend the system which is demonstrably and obviously unjust and unfair.

And you do rip on other teams for diving even when it's the only reason your own team advances. Well done. You guys would make great politicians.

The comparison with baseball (as far as refereeing) is fine. Baseball has as many arbitrary calls as any sport -- every pitch is a judgment call by the umpire. Do you have any clue what percentage of games the umpiring is noticeable enough to decide the outcome? I'd say less than 1%. In this cup I'd put the estimate at about 25%.

In baseball, the ump can't award a hit batsmen a home run. In soccer, the ref can (and does, even if the guy wasn't hit). Vive la difference.

But I'm glad the World Cup gets such a stage. It's the time every four years when I'm reminded that Americans aren't so stupid after all.

And, please, I'm aching to know what special insight of the game everyone possesses. I've watched games with serious fans, never hearing any comment more intelligent than "good ball". Yes, I've played the flippin' thing. It's the easiest game in the world to understand (and yet, they've screwed it up so badly with poor rules poorly applied).
Dude, you're starting to sound like a nagging mother-in-law. This sport has no more retardation in it than any other sport. Seriously, I don't understand why Americans get so worked up about it. It's almost like hating it equals patriotism or something. Like you have to hate it and be an annoying, repetitive, ball-buster about it in order to be a REAL American.

You have your views, we have ours. You love, what, men in tights pointing their asses at a guy who has to get the ball "in" their "touchdown" area, or dudes in oversized shorts who run and back forth on a space that seems the size of my living room so as to drop a ball in a basket...and we love football/soccer.

Really, when you get down to it, you can find something annoying or unfair or retarded about ALL sports. I have no problem in admitting that I love even those things about football -- the diving, the penalty kicks, the yellow cards...all of it. Because, something Americans will never understand because none of their popular sports provoke this, is that this is a sport that can bring an entire country to a standstill. Obviously there's going to be many retarded or annoying or unfair things in something that can do this. But they all merge into one the moment you find yourself standing with thousands of other people at a national monument cheering and crying and hugging total strangers, horns blaring, confetti everywhere, in the middle of the biggest party you've ever been to and that feels like it is never going to end...when only two hours prior, had you pryed yourself away from the t.v. and ventured out, a normally loud and pulsating metropolis seemed like a ghost town with literally not a single, solitary person outside.

I'm hoping even a little bit of this can strike a chord with you somehow. This game, at least for me, has more to do with the heart than the brain. And the heart is often annoying, unfair, and melodramatic.
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#388 Post by Ze » 08 Jul 2006, 02:29

JJ wrote:
ze424 wrote:
JJ wrote:If they didn't award a FREE GOAL for a ticky tack penalty in the box, maybe players might toughen up a bit and realize that getting a small kick to their shoe really didn't stop them from making a play on a ball 10 feet in front of them.
Carvalho's tackle slowed Henry down and probably would have cost him a clear chance on goal. Foul in the box. Penalty kick. Why are we still discussing this?
Because none of you will admit that your rules are retarded.

Aladdin went to the market and probably stole a loaf of bread. No jury trial. Cut off his hand. Why are we still discussing this?
Wow, you're right. It's the exact same situation. Well done.
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#389 Post by JJ » 08 Jul 2006, 06:07

ze424 wrote:
JJ wrote:
ze424 wrote:
JJ wrote:If they didn't award a FREE GOAL for a ticky tack penalty in the box, maybe players might toughen up a bit and realize that getting a small kick to their shoe really didn't stop them from making a play on a ball 10 feet in front of them.
Carvalho's tackle slowed Henry down and probably would have cost him a clear chance on goal. Foul in the box. Penalty kick. Why are we still discussing this?
Because none of you will admit that your rules are retarded.

Aladdin went to the market and probably stole a loaf of bread. No jury trial. Cut off his hand. Why are we still discussing this?
Wow, you're right. It's the exact same situation. Well done.
Thank you. By the way, we stopped arguing yesterday.
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#390 Post by jowind » 09 Jul 2006, 06:38

FORZA ITALIA

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#391 Post by F.N.G. » 09 Jul 2006, 10:08

This referee (as I have said before) is a total joke. NEVER a penalty, and the Zambrotta yellow was harsh (and I'm supporting France!)
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#392 Post by JJ » 09 Jul 2006, 10:49

F.N.G. wrote:This referee (as I have said before) is a total joke. NEVER a penalty, and the Zambrotta yellow was harsh (and I'm supporting France!)
Don't be a hater.
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#393 Post by F.N.G. » 09 Jul 2006, 11:13

JJ wrote:
F.N.G. wrote:This referee (as I have said before) is a total joke. NEVER a penalty, and the Zambrotta yellow was harsh (and I'm supporting France!)
Don't be a hater.
What I do hate is referees who like being in the spotlight. A good referee is one you don't even notice. This guy likes the cameras too much. Still, Italians back into it and becoming a real game.
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#394 Post by F.N.G. » 09 Jul 2006, 13:19

What the hell was Zidane thinking? :o
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#395 Post by JJ » 09 Jul 2006, 13:25

Sorry, toto. For the record, when I said "Free Goal", I meant "only if aimed at the French goalkeeper."
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#396 Post by DrG » 09 Jul 2006, 13:29

Bad luck France :( Penalties should never be used to determine the result of a World Cup final. I only saw the extra time, but neither team looked to play especially well - feel free to correct me.
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#397 Post by JJ » 09 Jul 2006, 13:37

La la la la la.

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#398 Post by spivey » 09 Jul 2006, 13:53

What's even funnier is that Zidane totally looks like Richard Moll when he was on Night Court, whose character's name was Bull.

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Even so, sorry Toto. :(

I have to admit we were going for Italy (when Argentina gets booted we usually fall back on Italy or Spain as that is where the family roots are), but I know the sting of a loss. Chin up, man.
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#399 Post by Batman » 09 Jul 2006, 14:34

F.N.G. wrote:What the hell was Zidane thinking? :o
It looked like that Italian fucker gave him a titty-twister. If that was the case, he shouldn't have head-butted his chest, he should have done a Vinnie Jones on the guy's Gascoines.

If this had been rugby, there would have been no need for the overt revenge shot. He could have settled it in a scrum.
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#400 Post by Sugarpuss O'Shea » 09 Jul 2006, 16:23

Wait, so they can't even use their hands when they fight? Man, the rules of this game are so weird.
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