Book Talk: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (spoilers)

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#26 Post by Impman » 05 Jul 2007, 23:52

so what is next up in the question asking, and prediction theories?
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#27 Post by Nunis » 06 Jul 2007, 00:05

I'll have another couple topics up shortly.

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#28 Post by Nunis » 06 Jul 2007, 00:42

The Reprieve and the Two Deaths

"The final chapter is hidden away, although it has now changed very slightly. One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two [main characters] die that I didn't intend to die." (JKR)

This is fascinating. We know that she has had this series planned for almost twenty years. We can therefore assume that the overall plot won't change wildly. However, someone who she had intended to die got a reprieve, and two people she had intended to live will not.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that these three characters will be someone as important as Harry, Hermione, Ron, Snape, or Voldemort. Even if she does say "main characters", I don't think she would do that. They're probably main, but not main-main.

My best guess at the reprieve is Draco Malfoy. He is a marked man now, but maybe Jo didn't have it in her to kill him.

And what about the two poor souls who will now die? Your guess is as good as mine, but I think it's probably someone like Lupin or one of the Weasleys, sadly.

Discussion: What three characters do you think she might be referring to, and why?


Aunt Petunia and Dudley

There are a couple of interesting things to discuss about the Dursleys. Let's do one at a time.

1. Aunt Petunia is truly a Muggle, but there is "a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye." "She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet." (JKR)

When asked about Aunt Petunia being "oddly flushed" (Half-Blood Prince, chapter 3) when she heard that Harry would only be returning to Privet Drive once more, Jo said that "There is a little more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye and you will find out what that is in book seven." (JKR)


Ok, so she's a muggle, and she's not a squib. What else could there be? We've been lead to believe that she knows more about the wizarding world than she lets on (remember her slip about Dementors in Book 5). I tend to think this means that she she knows something important which she will tell Harry about when he returns to their house for the last time. Or perhaps she has something of Lily's that will be useful to Harry.

I think the reason she is "oddly flushed" is probably because she realised she should have told Harry this information (whatever it is) years ago, but had been putting it off. Now she realises she might just have on more chance. It could be what she overheard or perhaps something from her correspondence with Dumbledore (more on this below).

Discussion: What do you think this mysterious thing about Petunia might be? Why was she "oddly flushed" when she learned that Harry would only be returning to Privet Drive one more time?

2. Petunia knows about dementors because she "overheard a conversation" between Lily and someone else. But there is more to it than that; we will learn more in Book 7. (JKR)

This follows on from the question above. Who was "that awful boy"? I tend to think it's not James, as we're lead to believe, but rather Dumbledore or Snape, but there's very little to go on.

Discussion: Who do you think was the person Lily was talking to about Dementors?

3. What did Dumbledore’s Howler to Aunt Petunia mean? ("Remember my last?").

Dumbledore's "last" was the letter he left for Petunia on the Dursleys' doorstep (along with Harry) all those years ago. According to Jo, it was his "last" because there were letters to Petunia before that. Jo later clarified that Dumbledore was not thinking of school letters he sent to both the Dursleys.

So the question becomes: why was it his last, what did it mean, and what on earth had they corresponded about before?

Remember, Dumbledore didn't decide to place Harry with Petunia until after James and Lily were killed and he realised he could extend Lily's protective magic to her blood relatives. So why the correspondance with Petunia?

Honestly, I've no idea.

As for the "remember my last", I think it might just be a way of saying "remember that you promised to take Harry in and raise him as your son, as that's the only way I can protect him".

Discussion: What had Dumbledore and Petunia corresponded about before? What does "remember my last" mean?

4. We will learn what Dudley "saw" when he faced the dementors. (JKR)

That chapter in Book 5 is written very carefully. If you pay close attention, you can see that we're never actually told if Dudley saw the Dementors (with his eyes). He seems to stare at the ground most of the time.

So what did he see or feel? It's probably not key to the story, but it's interesting. We know a Dementor brings about our worst memories. What could a spoiled little brat like Dudley have for a worst memory? It seemed he was genuinely shaken after the attack.

I have a theory on my own, but I will return to that in the next question.

Discussion: What do you think Dudley "saw" when he faced the Dementors?

5. "In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about." (JKR)

This might not be related to the Dursleys at all, but I'm putting it in here because of the theory I have.

First off, we know it's not Petunia. It could be one of the squibs (Filch, Mrs Figg), although I personally think it might be Dudley, and why I think so ties into the question above about Dudley's worst memory. Bear with me, please.

I think Dudley might have, when he was very little, performed magic when he was upset or angry. His parents (who hate everything to do with "the m-word") would have been very upset about this. They probably shouted at him.

Then, when he faced the Dementors, this is the memory that came back to him. He saw once again how his parents would react if he was magical. This would also explain why he's so spoiled, why his parents try so desperately hard to keep him happy at all times (buying him extra birthday gifts). They're worried he'll do it again.

And I think he will. I think when Harry turns 17, the protection will lift, and some sort of altercation will take place in Privet Drive. There might be some Death Eaters stationed nearby who will try to get at Harry after he's no longer protected, and Dudley might be provoked into doing accidental magic, hence realising his worst fear.

This is pure conjecture, but it's the best theory I have.

Discussion: Who do you think will be the person to do magic "late in life, under desperate circumstances"?

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#29 Post by TK421 » 06 Jul 2007, 05:02

Nunis wrote:Discussion: What three characters do you think she might be referring to, and why?

Reprieve - Wormtail - My guess is that her intention was to have him repay the life debt by sacrificing his own to save Harry. In doing so, though, he will have shown himself capable of love. With that in mind, I think that JKR will allow him to survive.

Dead - Dobby - I think that he'll not have been marked for death, but a decision was made to allow Lucius to off him.

Dead - Percy - Let's face it, there are plenty of Weasly's to spare. One of them needs to go.

Discussion: What do you think this mysterious thing about Petunia might be? Why was she "oddly flushed" when she learned that Harry would only be returning to Privet Drive one more time?

Wild theory - While she is a muggle, she was once romantically linked to a wizard.

Semi-wild theory - One thought which has crossed my mind is that there may be a sort of "Boy Named Sue" thing going on here. Perhaps her displeasure at all things magical is a bit of a ruse. It could be possible that Dumbledore requested that Harry be raised in a cruel environment to toughen him, as AD would know that Harry would be facing trials on his own. It could also be that Riddle's downfall will be somehow aided through the use of muggle artifacts.

Regular theory - While we are told that only Harry and Dumbledore know the full prophecy, there is evidence supporting that this is not the case. It is possible that Snape indeed does know the entire prophecy. This is possibly the reason that Dumbledore trusts Snape. By that I mean that it very well may be that SS and AD worked out the plan to inform Voldemort of just enough of the prophecy to bring about his fall. Of couorse, this would mean that AD and SS knowingly brought about the deaths of James and Lily. However, I can conceive the notion that AD is wise enough to understand that sacrifices must be made. If he knew through the prophecy that James and Lily's deaths were inevitable, I think that he would be capable of accepting this and orchestrating the events in a way best suited for the greater good. Anyway, if AD would allow Harry to falsely believe that they were the only two with the full knowledge of the prophecy, and one other does know, it is conceivable that more than one other knows.

As for being oddly flushed, it could be as simple as knowing something which needs to be told.

Discussion: Who do you think was the person Lily was talking to about Dementors?

I'm guessing Snape.

Discussion: What had Dumbledore and Petunia corresponded about before? What does "remember my last" mean?

Well, going off of my earlier theory, I would imagine that the previous correspondence may have been about the prophecy.

Remember my last very well may be refering to Petunia taking a magical oath similar to Snape's.

Discussion: What do you think Dudley "saw" when he faced the Dementors?

That theory of yours is very good, and highly plausible.

Barring that, I could see it being less of a plot device and more of a comic relief thing.

Discussion: Who do you think will be the person to do magic "late in life, under desperate circumstances"?

Again, I think that your theory has merit.

Aside from that, I think the obvious choice is Filch. He's shown that he's attempting to learn magic. I'll further state that if he does it, he will somehow manage to conjure a fully-formed Patronus, in the form of a cat.
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#30 Post by Nunis » 06 Jul 2007, 05:25

TK421 wrote:
Nunis wrote:Discussion: What three characters do you think she might be referring to, and why?

Reprieve - Wormtail - My guess is that her intention was to have him repay the life debt by sacrificing his own to save Harry. In doing so, though, he will have shown himself capable of love. With that in mind, I think that JKR will allow him to survive.

Dead - Dobby - I think that he'll not have been marked for death, but a decision was made to allow Lucius to off him.

Dead - Percy - Let's face it, there are plenty of Weasly's to spare. One of them needs to go.


All good ideas. I'd love to see Percy die (he's a dick).


TK421 wrote:
Discussion: What do you think this mysterious thing about Petunia might be? Why was she "oddly flushed" when she learned that Harry would only be returning to Privet Drive one more time?


Wild theory - While she is a muggle, she was once romantically linked to a wizard.

Semi-wild theory - One thought which has crossed my mind is that there may be a sort of "Boy Named Sue" thing going on here. Perhaps her displeasure at all things magical is a bit of a ruse. It could be possible that Dumbledore requested that Harry be raised in a cruel environment to toughen him, as AD would know that Harry would be facing trials on his own. It could also be that Riddle's downfall will be somehow aided through the use of muggle artifacts.


Your wild theory isn't so wild. I don't believe it though. Petunia was clearly jealous of Lily and from that point onwards, I don't think she has much sympathy to spare for anything or anyone magical.

I do believe it might be a bit of a ruse, in that she clearly knows more than Vernon is aware she does, but I don't like the idea that Dumbledore requested he be raised that way. Sure, it's made him stronger, but man, if that's true, then Dumbledore was a jerk.

TK421 wrote:Regular theory - While we are told that only Harry and Dumbledore know the full prophecy, there is evidence supporting that this is not the case. It is possible that Snape indeed does know the entire prophecy. This is possibly the reason that Dumbledore trusts Snape. By that I mean that it very well may be that SS and AD worked out the plan to inform Voldemort of just enough of the prophecy to bring about his fall. Of couorse, this would mean that AD and SS knowingly brought about the deaths of James and Lily. However, I can conceive the notion that AD is wise enough to understand that sacrifices must be made. If he knew through the prophecy that James and Lily's deaths were inevitable, I think that he would be capable of accepting this and orchestrating the events in a way best suited for the greater good. Anyway, if AD would allow Harry to falsely believe that they were the only two with the full knowledge of the prophecy, and one other does know, it is conceivable that more than one other knows.

As for being oddly flushed, it could be as simple as knowing something which needs to be told.


Way to go off topic! :) Also, I don't like your theory (because again, it makes Dumbledore a jerk). :tongue:

We'll get to the prophecy later. It's one of the big three topics I've been saving.

TK421 wrote:Remember my last very well may be refering to Petunia taking a magical oath similar to Snape's.


This I've heard before, and I like that at the same time I don't like it. I'll get more to that when we discuss Unbreakable Vows at some later point. It just doesn't seem like Dumbledore is the kind of man to make Unbreakable Vows. He prefers to trust people.

TK421 wrote:
Discussion: Who do you think will be the person to do magic "late in life, under desperate circumstances"?

Again, I think that your theory has merit.

Aside from that, I think the obvious choice is Filch. He's shown that he's attempting to learn magic. I'll further state that if he does it, he will somehow manage to conjure a fully-formed Patronus, in the form of a cat.


It would be great fun to see Filch do magic. He's been so tormented having to deal with these magical kids for so long.

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#31 Post by TK421 » 06 Jul 2007, 05:34

Well, I'll pre-apologize for going off topic again, but I was just discussing your Dudley theory with a coworker. I'm not sure why, but this theory popped into my head. I guess because I was thinking of how the dementors caused Dudley to relive his worst memory.

Could it be possible that Harry will use a penseive on his own memories? I see this as a possibility for a couple of reasons.

1) If the memories are pure, they are an accurate account of the event. Would it not be possible for Harry to extract his worst memory (the night his parents died) and examine it from an outside viewpoint?

2) If he does that, would this not make for an excellent defense against the dementors? Harry is affected severely by them because of the true horrors in his past. When they come near, he relives this memory. If he removes that memory and places it in a penseive, would the dementors have the same effect on him? I don't think so.
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#32 Post by Nunis » 06 Jul 2007, 05:44

TK421 wrote:Could it be possible that Harry will use a penseive on his own memories? I see this as a possibility for a couple of reasons.


It's possible, and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the pensieve. I personally think it's a bit overused though.

TK421 wrote:1) If the memories are pure, they are an accurate account of the event. Would it not be possible for Harry to extract his worst memory (the night his parents died) and examine it from an outside viewpoint?


Theoretically, that's true. However, I don't think he has an actual proper memory of that night, since he was so small. If he does, however, that's a brilliant theory. I'd love to see that.

TK421 wrote:2) If he does that, would this not make for an excellent defense against the dementors? Harry is affected severely by them because of the true horrors in his past. When they come near, he relives this memory. If he removes that memory and places it in a penseive, would the dementors have the same effect on him? I don't think so.


I have no idea if that's how the Dementors work, i.e. I don't think we know if temporarily removing a memory using a pensieve means they can't make you relive it.

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#33 Post by Impman » 07 Jul 2007, 07:17

Discussion: What three characters do you think she might be referring to, and why?

I think the person with the reprieve will be Ron Weasley, I think he has been Harry's 'sidekick' for so long that he will have sacrificed his life for Harry, but JKR had a last minute change of decision.
The other could be Snape, as he turns out to be good, and would have otherwise died.

I think Malfoy will bite the bullet, and possibly one of the Dursleys, Malfoy as he is a character that can't carry on really, and one of the Dursleys as I think they will form some of the plot.


Discussion: What do you think this mysterious thing about Petunia might be? Why was she "oddly flushed" when she learned that Harry would only be returning to Privet Drive one more time?

Think that she may be a witch after all, and the deepest undercover witch there is, she was oddly flushed because she knew she would have to carry on the hatred of Harry pretence one last time.

Discussion: Who do you think was the person Lily was talking to about Dementors?

I think that was Peter Pettigrew AKA Wormtail

Discussion: What had Dumbledore and Petunia corresponded about before? What does "remember my last" mean?

Have to go along with TK421 here, it would also back up the theory about one of the Dursleys dying.

Discussion: What do you think Dudley "saw" when he faced the Dementors?

A life alone with no parents, a life with all his comforts taken away, and most of all a life with Harry been the favoured one.

Discussion: Who do you think will be the person to do magic "late in life, under desperate circumstances"?

I am going for Dudley here, he may witness his mother doing magic and then killed, so in a fit of rage he then does some magic to kill or do something to whoever has killed his mother.

I wrote all these at Heathrow Airport, after my flight was delayed, so hopefully will get your majesty's response when I get back, plus be able to answer further questions!
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#34 Post by Mazer » 07 Jul 2007, 07:25

Ok, I've reread through Prisoner, so I can chime in a bit.

Going back a bit to things I've noticed relating to things upthread:
1) There is definitely a lot of talk about Harry's eyes, and how he is exactly like James except for that. So now I'm wondering if it's not just the eyes that are important, but the eyes in relation to the fact that the rest of him is James-like.
2) In relation to Snape loving Lily - I really like that theory. Also, in Philosopher's Stone, it's actually stated explicitly by both Voldemort and then Harry that Lily wasn't supposed to die, but did because she was protecting him. So, yeah that could totally be related - Snape making a plea for her, but then losing faith when he saw how easily V. broke it (because, hey, evil).

I'm also losing a bit of faith in Snape due to my rereading, but I'm guessing that's a topic that coming up so I'll leave it for now.

The only current topic that I feel competent to comment on yet is
Nunis wrote:The Reprieve and the Two Deaths.
I agree that I don't think it will be really central characters, except possibly Snape, for one of the deaths.

I also don't think Percy will be a death - it's seems too easy a way to resolve that plotline.

I think it's going to by sympathetic characters whose loss will sadden our heroes, but spur them on. My big guess is Hagrid, though Lupin would also be a likely choice.

For the reprieve, I think it could be one of the three - Jo thinking she could kill them, but then realizing she just couldn't when putting it down on paper.

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#35 Post by Nunis » 07 Jul 2007, 14:52

Impman wrote:Discussion: What three characters do you think she might be referring to, and why?

The other could be Snape, as he turns out to be good, and would have otherwise died.


I seriously doubt Snape's fate was one she changed. He's one of the main characters carrying the story. His fate has been sealed since day one.

Impman wrote:Discussion: What do you think this mysterious thing about Petunia might be? Why was she "oddly flushed" when she learned that Harry would only be returning to Privet Drive one more time?

Think that she may be a witch after all, and the deepest undercover witch there is, she was oddly flushed because she knew she would have to carry on the hatred of Harry pretence one last time.


Nu-uh, she's not a witch. JK has said so. Petunia is not magical, and se's not a squib either.

Impman wrote:Discussion: Who do you think was the person Lily was talking to about Dementors?

I think that was Peter Pettigrew AKA Wormtail


Can I ask why?

Impman wrote:Discussion: What do you think Dudley "saw" when he faced the Dementors?

A life alone with no parents, a life with all his comforts taken away, and most of all a life with Harry been the favoured one.


Impossible. The Dementors make us relive our worst memories. It's the Boggart that makes us see our worst fear.

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#36 Post by Nunis » 07 Jul 2007, 15:37

Mazer wrote:1) There is definitely a lot of talk about Harry's eyes, and how he is exactly like James except for that. So now I'm wondering if it's not just the eyes that are important, but the eyes in relation to the fact that the rest of him is James-like.


Yeah, it's curious, isn't it?

Mazer wrote:2) In relation to Snape loving Lily - I really like that theory. Also, in Philosopher's Stone, it's actually stated explicitly by both Voldemort and then Harry that Lily wasn't supposed to die, but did because she was protecting him. So, yeah that could totally be related - Snape making a plea for her, but then losing faith when he saw how easily V. broke it (because, hey, evil).


Yeah, and JK has said it's hugely important that Lily was given the chance to live, but chose not to.

Mazer wrote:I'm also losing a bit of faith in Snape due to my rereading, but I'm guessing that's a topic that coming up so I'll leave it for now.


Yeah, I'm deliberately saving that to be amongst the last things we discuss.

Mazer wrote:I also don't think Percy will be a death - it's seems too easy a way to resolve that plotline.

I think it's going to by sympathetic characters whose loss will sadden our heroes, but spur them on. My big guess is Hagrid, though Lupin would also be a likely choice.


Yeah, I agree. I don't think Percy will bite it either. At least not until after he makes up with his family.

Hagrid and Lupin are both in serious danger, I fear. I'd love to see Lupin kick some Greyback ass first though.

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Re: Book: Harry Potter 7 (predictions and theories)

#37 Post by Agrajag » 07 Jul 2007, 21:27

Lots of interesting stuff... I can't wait for DH to come out. Sadly, I just realized that the Borders release party I planned on going to I never wrote in my calendar and I foolishly made plans to travel down to Philly Friday the 20th to see a few friends I haven't seen in 6+ months. :balrog: Plus, company picnic at an amusement park on the 21st which I will now probably be reading throughout.

Anyway, to some thoughts

Discussion: What do you think the remaining two Horcruxes might be? And where are they? How will Harry have to go about destroying them?

I still like my thought of Harry being a Horcrux basically cause I remember having it early on before reading about it everywhere. Plus I believe Harry has to die a) to dissuade further non-JK Potter books & b) to become a true hero I think he'll sacrifice his happiness and his life for his friends.

Although, I definitely am finding it harder and harder to believe my Harry is a Horcrux theory. After all, with the knowledge that this young boy was to be his downfall, why would Voldemort want to store his soul inside of him? Unless he went there to kill Harry and turn the corpse into a Horcrux (although that's kind of sick).

Rather, I think Harry is an accidental Horcrux. Nunis, you said (somewhere) that Horcruxes take deliberation to make. I don't think we've been told enough about the process to assume this. I think that maybe, after being split 5-6 times already, that during those three killings part of his soul may have accidentally transferred into Harry. Dumbledore told us that he cannot feel Horcruxes being destroyed (e.g. diary & ring), so maybe he didn't know one was being made. Maybe when Voldemort taunted Dumbledore to kill him while inside Harry, he realized part of his soul already existed there. After all--after 5 books of almost non-stop attempts on Harry's life, in HBP Harry's life is actually protected by Voldemort. His Death Eaters are on orders to spare the boy

Also, could Harry be a descendant of Gryffindor? After all, he did live in Godric's Hollow and when showing devotion to Dumbledore in COS Fawkes comes to the rescue with Gryffindor's Sorting Hat which later produces his sword.... Could Voldemort accidentally have gotten his fourth founder that night?

Anyway my thoughts on the 7 (possibly 8 ) pieces of soul:
1. The one still residing inside Voldemort
2. The diary (destroyed)
3. Slytherin's ring (destroyed)
4. Slytherin's locket (with Kreacher)
5. The cup of Hufflepuff (location unknown)
6. Such and such (wand?) of Ravenclaw (location unknown)
7. Nagini (with Voldemort)
8. Harry himself (descendant of Gryffindor??)

Discussion: Who do you think R.A.B. is? Do you think he might have collected or destroyed any other Horcruxes? If it's the same locket as the one in Grimmauld Place, who do you think has it now?

RAB had to be Regulus for the reasons you stated. I'll be interested to read Harry's interrogation of Kreacher. I wonder if Kreacher drank the poison and survived because it doesn't affect house elves as badly. Or if Regulus took the poison. Either way, I don't think RAB did anything besides the one. His note didn't make it sound like he was going on a crusade for every last piece of soul. He probably only knew about the one (eavesdropping) and decided to do what he could to destroy it.

I also can't wait to find out how Dumbledore destroyed the ring. All throughout HBP, we're told he wants to do that story justice and we never find out how his hand got killed. I'm hoping his portrait will share the story and may give a clue how to destroy the locket, which I believe is still at Grimmauld Place in Kreacher's bedroom. With so many other unknown Horcruxes in unknown locations, I have to believe DH starts out by destroying the locket early. And if Mundungus did pawn it off somewhere, it would be that much harder to track down. One easy Horcrux destroyed before Chapter 10 (hopefully).

Discussion: What do you think the importance is of Harry having his mother's eyes? What might we learn about Lily in Book 7?

I really never gave much thought to the fact that he had his mother's eyes. I always thought it was a story device to let Harry know a lot of people knew and loved his parents (Lupin, Slughorn, et al who mention it). The biggest reveal about Lily in Book 7 would be that she did date Severus. I highly doubt that though--in Snape's Worst Memory, she just seemed like a nice girl who didn't think anyone deserved to be picked on. I think Severus probably took that as a sign of love and was probably rejected. A completely off-the-wall idea that just hit me (and would sort of be a cop-out)--what if Lily was Petunia's twin? I can't recall if anywhere in the series Petunia talks about Lily being much older or younger, so what if this was an odd twin birth, with one Muggle and one "Mudblood"?

Discussion: Why didn't Dumbledore kill Voldemort in the Ministry? What was the spell he cast? Are Horcruxes the only mystery here?

I think Dumbledore didn't kill Voldemort because he knew he couldn't. He's had his theory on Horcruxes ever since Harry told him about the diary, and so if true--killing the body at the Ministry would just create another bodiless figure who'd have to go hide in the Alps for another decade. I can't think there's much more to it than that. The spell must be unknown to us as of now--I must have read through that too quickly both times because AK is supposed to be unblockable, no?

Discussion: What does the gleam of triumph mean? What does it mean that Voldemort now has Harry's blood? Is Voldemort now more vulnerable?

Gleam of triumph is definitely one for the good guys. Sure Voldemort can touch Harry now because he used his blood to regenerate--but it has to rely on Voldemort's constant ignorance regarding the strongest magic of all--love. Time and time again, Dumbledore would talk about Voldemort relying on Dark Magic and forgetting/ignoring the stronger/older magic. Sure Harry's defense is down now, but there's something special that's going to happen because Harry's, and by extension Lily's, blood courses through his veins. I have no idea what it could be though.

Discussion: What three characters do you think she might be referring to, and why?

I believe Snape is a goner--but I agree with Nunis and think that that was written in stone 20 years ago.

I think Lupin might be one of the ones to unfortunately bite it even though he wasn't supposed to.

Could Fudge be the one to get a reprieve? Maybe JK had a change of heart and saved Cornelius who will restructure the Ministry? Even as I write it, I don't see why Fudge would have even been in that much danger...

If I have to guess Ron got the reprieve and maybe Hagrid got bumped off? I wonder when the press conference will be when JK shares with the world the three characters she had meant... and I think the bigger mystery is not who, but why? Did she always plan on killing Ron, but in the end just found she couldn't do it? Did she think of a slightly different plot point which involved Hagrid going to meet his mother? Or was there some other reason why these changes occurred? That's what I want to know...

Discussion: What do you think this mysterious thing about Petunia might be? Why was she "oddly flushed" when she learned that Harry would only be returning to Privet Drive one more time?

Always viewed the Dursleys as bit characters and never gave them much thought. I give credit that Petunia may have had an affair with a wizard when she was younger--she's not proud of it, and maybe even Dudley was a result of this (depending on when the magical rendezvous occurred)

Discussion: Who do you think was the person Lily was talking to about Dementors?

I foolishly thought it was James all this time... which is probably why it isn't. JK is a great writer (especially with her use of foreshadowing, sometimes several books ahead). When I read that piece two times previously, I would have sworn she mentioned James' name. The fact that she didn't almost proves that it wasn't James. Most likely Severus--during the time he tried to court her (and if he was talking about Dementors it's no surprise he failed)

Discussion: What had Dumbledore and Petunia corresponded about before? What does "remember my last" mean?

Obviously, not reading mugglenet et al puts us at a disadvantage. When reading the book, I read "Remember my last" as just "Remember the last note I sent you" referring to the letter pinned to Harry addressed to Petunia explaining the blood protection. If JK has said "last" refers to the last of several letters, is it possible Harry was first dropped off with a note explaining the deaths of Lily and James and asking the Dursleys to care for their nephew? Maybe Petunia, knowing about Owl Post, wrote back saying they wanted nothing to do with the wizarding world and was going to send Harry to an orphanage. Maybe there were a few letters back and forth explaining the blood protection. The final note from Dumbledore may have been a threat to reveal Petunia's checkered past (maybe with one Severus Snape even)?? Petunia had to agree to care for Harry otherwise Dumbledore would out her?

Discussion: Who do you think will be the person to do magic "late in life, under desperate circumstances"?

Switched these last two cause you're making me rethink everything! I thought Mrs. Figg would be the Squib-turned-witch. After all she is "late in life" and she's indirectly working for the Order. It would be great to see Filch's extra-curricular work pay off, but I doubt he'd be very trustworthy if he could use magic on class clowns.

Discussion: What do you think Dudley "saw" when he faced the Dementors?

The tricky thing is Muggles can't see Dementors--they can only feel their presence due to the lack of happiness. I'm not sure (you don't quote her) if JK ever slipped and said Book 7 would reveal what Dudley "saw" or if that's just your language....

I do recall, on my re-read, that chapter being written kind of oddly. At the time, I wasn't really looking for anything, but I might break it back out just to focus on Dudley this time around. I think this is probably the most likely answer now. If Petunia did hook up with Severus or James or some other wizard once before, maybe Dudley is a wizard too. Then he should have seen the Dementors in the alley and probably relived the time he grew a little piggy tail.

If all that is nonsense, then Dudley is a Muggle and didn't see anything. He probably just felt the bad times (pig tail, only 36 presents, etc.) but if the section is written as vaguely as you suggest, I have to think little Duddykins is going to do some magic. I just wonder how. I can't see Dudley joining Harry on his mission, and I doubt we'll visit Privet Drive after Harry leaves there on his birthday. So does the action start right away, with something happening so bad that Dudley has a magical outburst?


Damn my Philly friends and work picnic. I think I'm going to have to take off on the 23rd.... :balrog:
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Re: Book: Harry Potter 7 (predictions and theories)

#38 Post by Middle » 08 Jul 2007, 02:14

Discussion: Who do you think R.A.B. is?

Very certain it's Regulus.
In Dutch, the translation to 'Black' is Zwart. Guess what the initials are for our mystery person?

You guessed it: R.A.Z.
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#39 Post by Nicholasp27 » 08 Jul 2007, 19:35

i like the idea of dudley doing magic; would explain why they locked harry in a closet so he wouldn't be an influence on dudley

and also why they spoil him so

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#40 Post by mmmmm movies » 08 Jul 2007, 20:54

I think Hagrid's days are numbered. I think the reprieve was probably going to be Ron. JK just couldn't get rid of one of the main 3. I think a Weasley is going to get it though. Percy is too easy a target. I'm guessing one of the twins. I think that would be a sad death and affect many of the characters(especially the remaining twin). They are generally comic relief and if one of them gets it, it will reinforce the serious nature of the war. The older Weasley brothers wouldn't affect the reader as much because they are more complimentary characters. It's too easy to say that Voldemort will be killed.

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Re: Book: Harry Potter 7 (predictions and theories)

#41 Post by Nunis » 08 Jul 2007, 23:09

Agrajag wrote:Rather, I think Harry is an accidental Horcrux. Nunis, you said (somewhere) that Horcruxes take deliberation to make. I don't think we've been told enough about the process to assume this. I think that maybe, after being split 5-6 times already, that during those three killings part of his soul may have accidentally transferred into Harry.


You're right, we don't know that for a fact. However, Slughorn appeared to believe that you not only had to murder someone, but also that some kind of spell or incantation was necessary.

Agrajag wrote:Also, could Harry be a descendant of Gryffindor? After all, he did live in Godric's Hollow and when showing devotion to Dumbledore in COS Fawkes comes to the rescue with Gryffindor's Sorting Hat which later produces his sword.... Could Voldemort accidentally have gotten his fourth founder that night?


He could be, but I've never liked that idea. It's possible, I suppose.

Agrajag wrote:I also can't wait to find out how Dumbledore destroyed the ring. All throughout HBP, we're told he wants to do that story justice and we never find out how his hand got killed.


I also really want to know that, and we're bound to find out. You don't just say (as a storyteller) "hey, here's a really interesting story", and then not tell it. We'll find out, I'm sure.

Agrajag wrote:Always viewed the Dursleys as bit characters and never gave them much thought. I give credit that Petunia may have had an affair with a wizard when she was younger--she's not proud of it, and maybe even Dudley was a result of this (depending on when the magical rendezvous occurred)


That I don't buy at all. Dudley is too much like Vernon not to be his son. Trust me, there is much more to Petunia (and probably Dudley) than we already know. They've just been sitting there as "bit characters", waiting for Book 7 to knock us off our feet.

Agrajag wrote:Obviously, not reading mugglenet et al puts us at a disadvantage. When reading the book, I read "Remember my last" as just "Remember the last note I sent you" referring to the letter pinned to Harry addressed to Petunia explaining the blood protection. If JK has said "last" refers to the last of several letters, is it possible Harry was first dropped off with a note explaining the deaths of Lily and James and asking the Dursleys to care for their nephew? Maybe Petunia, knowing about Owl Post, wrote back saying they wanted nothing to do with the wizarding world and was going to send Harry to an orphanage. Maybe there were a few letters back and forth explaining the blood protection. The final note from Dumbledore may have been a threat to reveal Petunia's checkered past (maybe with one Severus Snape even)?? Petunia had to agree to care for Harry otherwise Dumbledore would out her?


I don't read Mugglenet either.

I think they corresponded before Lily and James got killed. Also, I don't think Dumbledore was the kind of man to threaten to reveal secrets if he didn't get his wish. He was probably stern but persuasive.

Agrajag wrote:The tricky thing is Muggles can't see Dementors--they can only feel their presence due to the lack of happiness. I'm not sure (you don't quote her) if JK ever slipped and said Book 7 would reveal what Dudley "saw" or if that's just your language....


From World Book Day Chat, March 4, 2004
Amy: What did Dudley see when he faced the Dementors in book five?
JK Rowling: Ah, good question. You'll find out!

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Re: Book: Harry Potter 7 (predictions and theories)

#42 Post by Nunis » 08 Jul 2007, 23:10

Middle wrote:Discussion: Who do you think R.A.B. is?

Very certain it's Regulus.
In Dutch, the translation to 'Black' is Zwart. Guess what the initials are for our mystery person?

You guessed it: R.A.Z.


Yeah, as I said above, they did the same in Germany.

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#43 Post by Nunis » 08 Jul 2007, 23:13

Oh, and one more thing I thought of when talking about the deaths and the reprieve. No one really counts this as canon, but it's an interesting tidbit anyway.

Back in the day, before Jo knew the influence these books would have, and before she knew she had to guard the secrets and the answers to the story, she visited a bookstore (I want to say it was Chicago, but I can't remember). When asked whether the trio would all live through to the end of the series, she said "yes".

I'm not saying she hasn't changed her mind, or that this is 100% true, but I like to cling to it, and it's certainly interesting.

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#44 Post by Nicholasp27 » 09 Jul 2007, 08:31

also, they asked JK which 5 she'd have to dinner if she could

she said harry/ron/hermione and then paused for the final 2 and said she knows who will die or not by end of 7 and didn't know if she can invite dead people or not to dinner

that points to harry/ron/hermione being alive (at least at that point...1 or 2 of them could be the 2 she decided will die now)

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#45 Post by Steel Frog » 09 Jul 2007, 08:39

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Re: Book: Harry Potter 7 (predictions and theories)

#46 Post by Agrajag » 09 Jul 2007, 20:18

Nunis wrote:I don't read Mugglenet either.


NO WAY! Where do you get all the JK quotes and details and pics and trailers and whatnot? You're FW's Potter source, and I always assumed you visited MuggleNet or the like frequently, reading interviews and everything....
Nunis wrote:
Agrajag wrote:The tricky thing is Muggles can't see Dementors--they can only feel their presence due to the lack of happiness. I'm not sure (you don't quote her) if JK ever slipped and said Book 7 would reveal what Dudley "saw" or if that's just your language....


From World Book Day Chat, March 4, 2004
Amy: What did Dudley see when he faced the Dementors in book five?
JK Rowling: Ah, good question. You'll find out!


Tricky. JK didn't say "Book 7 will reveal what Dudley saw" but rather the questioner used the word :s We shall see--I really like the Dudley as a wizard theory though. So.F-ing.Excited.

Plus--only 24 hours till OotP :banana:
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Re: Book: Harry Potter 7 (predictions and theories)

#47 Post by Nunis » 09 Jul 2007, 22:44

Agrajag wrote:
Nunis wrote:I don't read Mugglenet either.


NO WAY! Where do you get all the JK quotes and details and pics and trailers and whatnot? You're FW's Potter source, and I always assumed you visited MuggleNet or the like frequently, reading interviews and everything....


I didn't say I don't visit any site, I just don't like Mugglenet. I prefer The Leaky Cauldron, which is more professional, more mature, and has absolutely freakin' everything you want to know about Harry Potter.



Also, I'll have some more topics later this morning. In the meantime, I'll give you this interesting bit from a new interview Helena Bonham Carter has given.

While she was considering whether to accept the relatively small role in "Order of the Phoenix," she says, "J.K. Rowling sent a message saying she's going to be very significant in the last one."

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#48 Post by Nicholasp27 » 10 Jul 2007, 08:50

theory about how they can trust Snape again: Dumbledore extracted his memory of convo with Snape into the pensieve...he couldn't have told anyone in case that person's thoughts were taken by Voldemort, but he coulda extracted that memory for safe-keeping

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#49 Post by bratzks » 10 Jul 2007, 08:57

The story will end on page 784 (US), 608 (UK).
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#50 Post by Humphrey » 11 Jul 2007, 02:11

I reread Order of the Phoenix and Half-Blood Prince over the past week. I realised that it was not the books that I disliked, but Harry himself. I cannot identify with him for various reasons. First of all, he is always suspicious of everyone, he is a busybody, he is completely self-obsessed, he does not listen to words of guidance, he thinks he knows everything best, he is petulant, insensitive and a hypocrite. He tries to use unforgivable curses (unforgivable - so why are we expected to forgive him?), he puts everyone in danger all the time and is only rarely justified in doing so. He has no special abilities, talents or intellect. In brief: he is a sullen little cunt of a teenager. And I do not like teenagers.
Throughout the series I have felt a much stronger sense of identification with Snape, who - the last book makes it crystal clear: he does work for Dumbledore, he is, like Harry, Dumbledore's man through and through, and had he not killed Dumbledore at the end of the book, he himself would have died, and clearly his continued perceived loyalty to Voldemort would be of the utmost importance, whereas Dumbledore had served his purpose, gave Harry all the tools he needs, etc - is always a lone voice of reason (admittedly, a hideously sarcastic one, but still reasonable). He has not yet done anything that we should hate him for, on the contrary, he is second only to Dumbledore in terms of efforts exerted against the rising power of Voldemort, and will be a lynchpin in the denoument.
Oh, and I bet one of the remaining Horcruxes is the ruby in Gryffindor's sword - why else did Voldemort visit Dumbledore one more time to ask for the job, when clearly, he was already making his Horcruxes? He will have either stolen the ruby then, or sealed his bit of soul into it during the interview (remember the hand that Harry spots snatching at the wand during Voldemort's agrument with Dumbledore?).
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