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bratzks
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#601 Post by bratzks » 18 Oct 2006, 05:37

cool Nunis. Interweb porn will never be the same :mishchief:
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#602 Post by what's that? » 18 Oct 2006, 05:37

Nunis wrote:Open any website (the more colours and images, the better), then replace the address in the address bar with this.

Code: Select all

javascript:R=0; x1=.1; y1=.05; x2=.25; y2=.24; x3=1.6; y3=.24; x4=300; y4=200; x5=300; y5=200; DI=document.images; DIL=DI.length; function A(){for(i=0; i<DIL; i++){DIS=DI[ i ].style; DIS.position='absolute'; DIS.left=Math.sin(R*x1+i*x2+x3)*x4+x5; DIS.top=Math.cos(R*y1+i*y2+y3)*y4+y5}R++}setInterval('A()',5 ); void(0);
FUN!! :D
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#603 Post by Middle » 18 Oct 2006, 07:50

I thought this was a pretty amazing piece of writing. Takes a while to get through it, but it's worth the read!

It might have been more appropriate in the video game thread, but I found it genuinely interesting!
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#604 Post by bing » 18 Oct 2006, 09:03

The BLT ring. $750 for 14k gold.
http://www.carrieweston.com/detail.php?id=82
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#605 Post by You Know, for Kids » 18 Oct 2006, 09:14

bing wrote:The BLT ring. $750 for 14k gold.
http://www.carrieweston.com/detail.php?id=82
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That's great! :D
It's fun, it's healthy, it's good exercise. The kids will just love it. and we put a little sand inside to make the experience more pleasant.

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#606 Post by bratzks » 18 Oct 2006, 09:23

You Know, for Kids wrote:
bing wrote:The BLT ring. $750 for 14k gold.
http://www.carrieweston.com/detail.php?id=82
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That's great! :D
yeah neat- Now if only they had one with two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions and sesame seed buns. :D
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#607 Post by You Know, for Kids » 18 Oct 2006, 09:33

m1ddle wrote:I thought this was a pretty amazing piece of writing. Takes a while to get through it, but it's worth the read!

It might have been more appropriate in the video game thread, but I found it genuinely interesting!
What was it about the writing that impressed you? I thought it was clearly bitter, and frankly more out of touch with "reality" than he disposed himself as being while still playing.

I think there are a lot of people in his position (or who should be) where they need to take a step back and assess their lives to re-establish priorities. That said, I think it's sad that people who fail to exercise self-control have to make it sound like it is the fault of someone else.

The game isn't responsible for his neglect of the other things in his life. The game is like any other hobby. I might like rebuilding Corvettes. I can choose to spend a few hours a week rebuilding one... or I can stay up all night tinkering or browsing eBay for parts or more fodder to be rebuilt after the one I am working on. Going the latter route may well have an impact on my work, my family, my finances.

Even FilmWise can be a lure to spend a lot more time involved with a virtual community than a "real-world" one, and if overused can be a problem (like me today getting next to nothing done).

Finding the balance is important. Diversions such as these can be a valuable means of blowing off some steam, but like anything else, it should be done in moderation.

That said, I thought the writing was average, and the writer was operating from a misleading perspective.

He spent a year playing this game at an average of about 4.5 hours a day while being unemployed. Is that the excess he represents? His disappointment seems to come from the failure of his community to respond to his view the way he would have liked - or from his misunderstanding of the dynamics of the game to begin with. People who play WoW don't expect to win. The type of player he was describing tries to continually improve the capability of their online persona, much in the same way an athlete might spend hours each day practicing to improve their skills. The difference being that in a game like this the improvements come mostly from difficult to obtain items that replace others. There is a social aspect of the game, as well as a mechanism for feeling a sense of achievement in any number of areas.

Some people aren't satisfied unless they can have the best of breed at whatever they desire. Some people realize they can't afford the best of breed. This writer clearly can't be happy with a Honda knowing that someone else out there is driving a Lamborghini. Worse, he's disappointed to see that there are others out there who think they are more worthy of driving an elite car than he is.

QQ more.

And yes, this probably did belong in the video games thread.
It's fun, it's healthy, it's good exercise. The kids will just love it. and we put a little sand inside to make the experience more pleasant.

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#608 Post by Middle » 18 Oct 2006, 13:03

Well, I agree with you completely. That's why I posted it in the first place. That said, I'm amazed that people like this actually manage to get out of their habbit, while being completely intoxicated with the whole thing. Mind you, this is even a game you have to pay for, so basically you ruin your life the same way as any other addiction.

When I read it, I was amazed by the way he looked upon it. I've been 'addicted' to more than enough computer games in the past (well, not threatening or anything, but spending way too much time on them, yeah), but only for short stints at a time. That's why I found it an interesting read, and therefore posted it on the "Interesting" thread.

There are probably way to many people who need to get a grip on their 'normal' lives again, and that's not just for a game like WoW. This guy was not stupid, he was social (or used to be) and just had the 'luck' that the game came along at a certain point in his life. Imagine if you're an average geek with no real friends and no real ambition in life.
I think this guy made it pretty clear how fast life can go down the drain through something as 'innocent' as a computer game....

Edit: Yeah, I might have exagerated on the 'amazing writng'-part, but I was somewhat 'touched' by what he wrote. And the guy clearly has (had?) some issues...
Last edited by Middle on 18 Oct 2006, 13:08, edited 1 time in total.
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#609 Post by Batman » 18 Oct 2006, 13:08

m1ddle wrote:I thought this was a pretty amazing piece of writing. Takes a while to get through it, but it's worth the read!

It might have been more appropriate in the video game thread, but I found it genuinely interesting!
Can you cut and paste the text into a quote block? It's blocked on my computer.

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#610 Post by Agrajag » 18 Oct 2006, 14:14

Batman wrote:
m1ddle wrote:I thought this was a pretty amazing piece of writing. Takes a while to get through it, but it's worth the read!

It might have been more appropriate in the video game thread, but I found it genuinely interesting!
Can you cut and paste the text into a quote block? It's blocked on my computer.

Thanks.
Intro:
The View From the Top
The top of what you ask? The height of World of Warcraft greatness.

A few weeks ago, a good friend of mine quit playing Warcraft. He was a council member on what is now one of the oldest guilds in the world, the type of position coveted by many of the 7 million people who play the game today, but which only a few ever get.

When he quit, I asked him if he would write a guest blog post about the experience. What follows is a cautionary tale about the pull an escape from reality can have on you.
blog wrote:60 levels, 30+ epics, a few really good "real life" friends, a seat on the oldest and largest guild on our server's council, 70+ days "/played," and one "real" year later...

Mr. Yeager asked me to write this "guest blog" for him. I figured I should oblige him this request - it was none other than Mr. Yeager who first introduced me to (begged for me to buy, actually :-p) the World of Warcraft. It was the "perfect storm" for me; a time in my life when I was unemployed, living at my family's house far from my friends, and had just finished my engineering degree and was taking a little time to find a job. I had a lot of free time on my hands and WoW gave me a place to spend it.

This could be a many page epic tale, but I figure I'd give you the brief history and pertinent information. The guild Mr. Yeager got me into and with which I became an officer is the oldest and largest on the server I played on. It is around 18 months old and extremely well-versed in endgame instances. I was both the "mage class lead" and an officer. I have many very good friends I met through WoW (in real life - no kidding) and even have been "involved" with another councilor in real life (yes, I know, I'm weird for meeting girls through an online video game but honestly, ask Mr. Yeager, she's head and shoulders better than all the girls I met DJing, waiting tables, in college, and bartending at clubs in Philly). But I digress...

I just left WoW permanently. I was a leader in one of the largest and most respected guilds in the world, a well-equipped and well-versed mage, and considered myself to have many close friends in my guild. Why did I leave? Simple: Blizzard has created an alternate universe where we don't have to be ourselves when we don't want to be. From my vantage point as a guild decision maker, I've seen it destroy more families and friendships and take a huge toll on individuals than any drug on the market today, and that means a lot coming from an ex-club DJ.

It took a huge personal toll on me. To illustrate the impact it had, let's look at me one year later. When I started playing, I was working towards getting into the best shape of my life (and making good progress, too). Now a year later, I'm about 30 pounds heavier that I was back then, and it is not muscle. I had a lot of hobbies including DJing (which I was pretty accomplished at) and music as well as writing and martial arts. I haven't touched a record or my guitar for over a year and I think if I tried any Kung Fu my gut would throw my back out. Finally, and most significantly, I had a very satisfying social life before. My friends and I would go out and there were things to do every night of the week. Now a year later, I realize my true friends are the greatest people in the world because the fact I came out of my room, turned the lights on, and watched a movie with them still means something. They still are having a great time teasing me at my expense, however, which shows they still love me and they haven't changed.

These changes are miniscule, however, compared to what has happened in quite a few other people's lives. Some background... Blizzard created a game that you simply can not win. Not only that, the only way to "get better" is to play more and more. In order to progress, you have to farm your little heart out in one way or another: either weeks at a time PvPing to make your rank or weeks at a time getting materials for and "conquering" raid instances, or dungeons where you get "epic loot" (pixilated things that increase your abilities, therefore making you "better"). And what do you do after these mighty dungeons fall before you and your friend's wrath? Go back the next week (not sooner, Blizzard made sure you can only raid the best instances once a week) and do it again (imagine if Alexander the Great had to push across the Middle East every damn week).

What does this mean? Well, to our average "serious" player this equates to anywhere between 12 hours (for the casual and usually "useless" player) to honestly 10 hours a day, seven days a week for those "hardcore" gamers. During my stint, I was playing about 30 hours a week (and still finding it hard to keep up with my farming) and logging on during my work day in order to keep up with all the guild happenings and to do my scheduling and tracking for the raids. A lot of time went into the development of new policies which took our friendly and family-oriented guild further and further away from its roots but closer to the end goal. Honestly, what that end goal is I'm not totally sure - there is truly no end to the game and every time you feel like you're satisfied with your progress, another aspect of the game is revealed and, well, you just aren't as cool as you can be again.

There are three problems that arise from WoW: the time it requires to do anything "important" is astounding, it gives people a false sense of accomplishment, and when you're a leader, and get wrapped up in it, no matter how much you care or want people to care, you're doing the wrong thing.

First off, let's go back to the time it takes to accomplish anything in the game. To really be successful, you need to at least invest 12 hours a week, and that is bare minimum. From a leadership perspective, that 12 hours would be laughed at. That's the guy who comes unprepared to raid and has to leave half way through because he has work in the morning or is going out or some other thing that shows "lack of commitment". To the extreme there is the guildie who is always on and ready to help. The "good guildie" who plays about 10 hours a day and seven days a week. Yes, that's almost two full-time jobs. Funny, no one ever asks any questions, though.

The worst though are the people you know have time commitments. People with families and significant others. I am not one to judge a person's situation, but when a father/husband plays a video game all night long, seven days a week, after getting home from work, very involved instances that soak up hours and require concentration, it makes me queasy that I encouraged that. Others include the kids you know aren't doing their homework and confide in you they are failing out of high school or college but don't want to miss their chance at loot, the long-term girl/boyfriend who is skipping out on a date (or their anniversary - I've seen it) to play (and in some cases flirt constantly), the professional taking yet another day off from work to farm mats or grind their reputations up with in-game factions to get "valuable" quest rewards, etc... I'm not one to tell people how to spend their time, but it gets ridiculous when you take a step back.

The game also provides people with a false sense of security, accomplishment, and purpose. Anyone can be a superhero here if they have the time to put in. Not only that, a few times I've seen this breed the "rockstar" personality in people who have no confidence at all in real life. Don't get me wrong, building confidence is a good thing and something, if honed appropriately, the game can do very right. But in more than a few cases, very immature people with bad attitudes are catered to (even after insulting or degrading others "in public") because they are "better" than the rest. Usually this means they played a lot more and have better gear. I'd really hate to see how this "I'm better than you attitude" plays out in real life where it means jack how epic your loot is - when you say the wrong thing to the wrong person it's going to have repercussions and you can't just log out to avoid the effects of your actions.

And people put everything on the line for these accomplishments with which they associate much value. I know of children and spouses being forced to play and grind for their parents, threats of divorce, rampant neglect, failing grades in school, and thousands of dollars spent on "outsourcing" foreign help. For what, you ask? Honor. The desire to be the best for at least one week. To get the best loot in the game. What do these "heroes" receive? Why, cheers and accolades of course as they parade along in their new shiny gear... which is obsolete the first time they step into one of the premier instances. The accomplishment and sacrifice itself are meaningless a few days later. Then it's usually off to the races again.

Finally, when you're a leader there is a call (or more appropriately a demand) for success. Usually those you represent want to keep progressing. They want to keep improving. They want more access to the best things. It is on you to provide it. In my experience, when you fail to progress fast enough, waves ripple throughout the guild and people become dissatisfied. It's your fault, no matter what. Everything you've done to keep things fair and provide for everyone does not mean a damn thing. A few will stand up for you, but when you have 150 people who all want 150 different things, you end up listening to 150 voices complaining about the job you're doing. This volunteer job usually takes at least 10 extra hours a week (on top of regular playing). Towards the end of my year of service, I apparently couldn't do anything right with my class. I had to rotate people to make sure everyone was getting a fair shot. I wrote actual mathematical proofs the allowed for fair and effective (yes, both) raid distribution according to efficiency, speed, and guild class population. I even rotated myself more than any other class member. People still took it upon themselves to tell me what I was doing wrong (constantly) and how their way was more fair (usually for them).

The thing that kicked me in the ass more than anything else was I really cared if my guildies were getting what they wanted out of the experience. I truly thought my efforts would make them happy. I wanted to make a difference to them. The greedy and socially phobic high school kid I thought I could help through the game, all of the couples (both married and not) who were falling apart because of the game I thought I could rescue, the girl who was deeply wounded by a guy who left her for the game but was herself addicted I thought I could save, not to mention a host of others, I thought my efforts were helping. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks: I was providing them with an escape from their problems and nurturing the very thing that was holding them back. Oh yeah, it hit me like a ton of bricks after I had changed so much and lost enough of myself that the most wonderful girl I ever met broke up with me.

I remember clearly after fumbling around life for a few weeks that I dragged myself into the bathroom to get ready for work. I was tired because I was up until close to 2 AM raiding. Every week I read though email or I would run into one of my "real" friends and I'd hear "Andy, what's up, I haven't seen you in a while." I looked in the mirror and in a cinemaesque turn of events and a biblical moment of clarity, told myself "I haven't seen me in a while either."

That did it. I wanted to do the things I wanted to do again and be with the people who appreciated me even if I abandoned them for a year and sucked to high heaven as a friend. The prodigal son returned and my friends were happy. The best advice I got was from the girl who dumped me for being a jackass (and after I decided to really quit and be "myself again" became one of, if not my best friend in the entire world), who said "your real friends like you even when you screw up." It's true.

Funny side note was the reaction I got from the guild that I spent a year pouring my heart and soul into. I made my post in the guild forums saying I was leaving (half of it RPing - something that doesn't happen after you start raiding) and that it was time for me to move on. Three days later I didn't exist any more. The machine kept on moving without this gear. A few people asked me over email (and when I logged on to clean out the old bank) when I was coming back (I'm not going to). There are a few others I keep in contact with and am planning on going to visit sooner or later so I can hang out in person and they can finally meet me. But in the end being forgotten about so soon after still left a bittersweet taste. But one that was a lot easier to swallow than the one I chugged down every day for the better part of a year.

Don't get me wrong, WoW did a lot of things right. At times it was a fun game that allowed me to keep in contact with friends who lived far away. More importantly it introduced me to some of the best real life friends I've ever met. However, it did take an undeniable toll on me and is taking a far greater one on many, many people when taken too far.
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#611 Post by Bill » 18 Oct 2006, 20:34


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#612 Post by Gren » 20 Oct 2006, 12:17

Jeffrey from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air turning up in EastEnders
Lionel Hutz, aka Miguel Sanchez, aka Dr. Nguyen van Thoc, was paid $8 for his 32 hours of babysitting.

He was glad to get it.

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#613 Post by Nunis » 20 Oct 2006, 14:18

Gren wrote:Jeffrey from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air turning up in EastEnders
He was in a Shakespeare play I saw at The Globe a couple months ago. It was super-weird.

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#614 Post by alan smithee » 20 Oct 2006, 19:40

what Wood & Astin saw vs. what Frodo & Sam saw: click
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

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#615 Post by alan smithee » 21 Oct 2006, 19:39

It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

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#616 Post by what's that? » 24 Oct 2006, 00:37

having bunked off work early on Friday to go see my mum at work, I saw Maggie Smith shopping for handbags. Oh, and at the weekend, my mum saw Dustin Hoffman! cool.
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#617 Post by Mr.StayPuft » 25 Oct 2006, 10:25


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#618 Post by Middle » 25 Oct 2006, 12:25

Mr.StayPuft wrote:pumpkin.
Ok, someone had way too much time on his hands there....looks neat though...
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#619 Post by Gren » 27 Oct 2006, 14:38

Name the 15 movie references in Muse's new video. I got 2 :s

No, I don't know what the 'veins of history' are, or why it sounds like 'vase of history'.
Lionel Hutz, aka Miguel Sanchez, aka Dr. Nguyen van Thoc, was paid $8 for his 32 hours of babysitting.

He was glad to get it.

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#620 Post by bdude » 28 Oct 2006, 05:23

m1ddle wrote:
Mr.StayPuft wrote:pumpkin.
Ok, someone had way too much time on his hands there....looks neat though...
Kinda reminds me of this
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#621 Post by snotball » 28 Oct 2006, 07:27

bdude wrote:
m1ddle wrote:
Mr.StayPuft wrote:pumpkin.
Ok, someone had way too much time on his hands there....looks neat though...
Kinda reminds me of this
It reminded me of this.
Bad dates

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#622 Post by bing » 31 Oct 2006, 14:02


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#623 Post by alan smithee » 02 Nov 2006, 13:48

It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

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#624 Post by TK421 » 03 Nov 2006, 14:06

Because I didn't see a "things that disturbed you" thread:

http://www.marvel.com/comics/Guiding_Light

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#625 Post by Gren » 03 Nov 2006, 15:18

I was thinking the the exact same thing just yesterday.
Lionel Hutz, aka Miguel Sanchez, aka Dr. Nguyen van Thoc, was paid $8 for his 32 hours of babysitting.

He was glad to get it.

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